[Held for Ransom]

Originally Posted by Held for Ransom

The pattern I posted is what I got back from Al Knoch. Compared to the original pattern on the mid-'70s ones,

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

/\ wait, i thought the grain pattern was 70-72/73, then it changed??

That reads almost like it changed at or after the mid 70’s…

I stated mid-'70s because of the casting date. I don't know when they went from the "beach sand" pattern to the "light erosion" pattern and I don't know the vehicle year this dash was pulled from (but light green may be a clue, thinking Esprit). This early-'70s dash doesn't have a casting date, unless it's the pressed in number. But does/did have a blue film covering the backside.

[SD455DJ]

Here is the date stamp on the backside of the original dash (4-8-70), Made in Canada B Uniroyal stamp, and 84/8 chalk mark (???). Not sure if the last pic is clear enough to see the grain pattern, but has a stretched little worm groove look to me.

Hmmm, they are upside down when looking at the backside of the dash, but I rotated the images so they would read right-side up, but I guess they don't stay that way when transferred...

Dennis

[unruhjonny]

Ok I figured I’d ask just incase;
When I got my car in 1995 it had a replacement (1978+) dash installed;
I pulled this one over twenty years ago from a 1975 Formula - I have understood that it’s not the early pattern;
I just figured I’d ask incase…

Unless something different literally falls in my lap, I wasn’t planning on using anything else.

[SD455DJ]

Jonny, It sure looks correct to me. Heck, I'd use it if I had it...gladly!

Dennis

[Held for Ransom]

Originally Posted by SD455DJ

Jonny, It sure looks correct to me. Heck, I'd use it if I had it...gladly!

Dennis

Dug them out. See if you think they look the same now. Of course touching them from the screen, they're going to feel the same. LOL.

[SD455DJ]

Mike, Help me out...which one is which...(LOL)?!

Dennis

[Held for Ransom]

Top (black) has casting date of 10-2-73 and grid date of Dec. 1973. Ink stamp MADE IN CANADA INSP-(ector) 13 UNIROYAL front and date of 021174 back.
Bottom (green) has no casting date or grid nor ink stamping anywhere.

[Held for Ransom]

Dennis, did this car have the original radiator with the tag? You mentioned a 3 core, so an FM. Do you have a picture?

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by Held for Ransom

Dennis, did this car have the original radiator with the tag? You mentioned a 3 core, so an FM. Do you have a picture?

Mike, I'll have to check...but I'm thinking since the radiator was gummed up pretty bad when we got it, it was a replacement and didn't have the original tags, or else we would have taken pictures of them...and I don't see any pics of the radiator we removed.

Dennis

[Held for Ransom]

Originally Posted by SD455DJ

A good friend told me about an old radiator repair shop in Ferndale, MI called Ferndale Radiator Repair that still rebuilds/re-cores old radiators and heater cores the old fashioned way. It's good to know a few still exist for our old cars. I do need to have the original 3-core radiator rebuild as it is plugged bad, so will probably take it down there this spring.

Dennis

Originally Posted by SD455DJ

Mike, I'll have to check...but I'm thinking since the radiator was gummed up pretty bad when we got it, it was a replacement and didn't have the original tags, or else we would have taken pictures of them...and I don't see any pics of the radiator we removed.

Dennis

I was just going by this other post. Thanks.

[SD455DJ]

Well, now I'm just going to have to check upstairs to see if I really do have it...lol! I wonder if I was confused with the original 4 core radiator in my '71 455HO Formula...?

Dennis

[SD455DJ]

We finally got the time (and the inspiration) to pull the RAIII 400 out of the Formula. It developed a slight bottom end knock when coming back from the 2022 TA Nationals and been parked since then. We spent yesterday pulling the engine (first time it’s been out of the engine bay since it left the Norwood assembly plant in late April of 1970). Instead of being down for another year, we decide to install another engine in temporarily, a 455HO from Dan’s engine stash. It been in several Pontiac A-body’s and was also in a 1971 T-37 that was raced at the Pure Stock Drags back around 2010 and was a participant in Pontiac Enthusiasts Magazines Pavement Pounders series where it went 12.50’s at 108 mph. It’s served duty in a ’71 Judge and GTO while their engines were out being rebuilt most recently.

The plan for the RAIII is to install forged rods & pistons, 1-piece stainless steel valves, bronze guides, new springs and retainers, poly-locks, etc. for durability. We’ll see if the original 068 ‘S’ cam & lifters are still good to be reused. If not, we’ll likely go with the Summit 2801 cam with Johnson Hylift hydraulic lifters. I’m going to keep the original RA exhaust manifolds on it in lieu of the oversized outlet units. We’ll be keeping the quench tight at .040” and the static compression ratio as low as possible, hopefully around 10.2 to 1. It should run well on 93 octane fuel with the proper timing curve and jetting. We will dyno the engine and post the results when that happens (this fall most likely). The build will be identical to the small valve XV code 400 in my ’70 Tempest with the only differences being the large valve #12 heads and the RA exhaust manifolds. That engine dyno’d at 385 hp/454 lb-ft torque, so we’re thinking 400+ hp/475 lb-ft should be attainable.

Dennis

[Formulajones]

That will be a great thread Dennis. Pretty much how I built my 70 RAIII 400 years ago. Never had it on an engine dyno but have had it on a chassis dyno where it did 301/355 and based on that and the 3890 race weight going 106 mph with the 3.31's I guesstimate it's probably making 380-390-ish+ hp at the flywheel.
Back then I used the old heavy TRW slugs in it with the tractor type 5/64 ring package. Quite a few things I'd change doing it over now that would be worth a few more ponies but it's been such a solid reliable engine that I've raced the dog snot out of for decades I just hate to mess with it.

[Held for Ransom]

I'll be waiting on results. So, you guys still have 93 octane around?

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by Held for Ransom

I'll be waiting on results. So, you guys still have 93 octane around?

So far we do! I sure hope it doesn't go away anytime soon!

Dennis

[SD455DJ]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

That will be a great thread Dennis. Pretty much how I built my 70 RAIII 400 years ago. Never had it on an engine dyno but have had it on a chassis dyno where it did 301/355 and based on that and the 3890 race weight going 106 mph with the 3.31's I guesstimate it's probably making 380-390-ish+ hp at the flywheel.
Back then I used the old heavy TRW slugs in it with the tractor type 5/64 ring package. Quite a few things I'd change doing it over now that would be worth a few more ponies but it's been such a solid reliable engine that I've raced the dog snot out of for decades I just hate to mess with it.

FJ, you're Formula is really quick for the build it has...very impressive. I'm not sure mine will run any quicker to be honest. I wonder why your Formy has 3.31's and not 3.55's being a RAIII/M40 non AC car...or does it have AC?

Dennis

[SD455DJ]

I need to make a correction in my earlier post...the magazine was High Performance Pontiac (HPP), not Pontiac Enthusiast (sorry Don) as I stated. Dan built that 455 to '71 455HO specs (block is a YC from a '72 B-body) to meet the old "Certified" class at the Pure Stock Drags where your engine was inspected and certified to be legal per the rules and was reassembled under watch and special paint applied at the engine component joints to ensure no midnight changes. The cam is a custom 068 grind with a slightly tighter LCL (112), but measures 212/225/112 at .050" lift and max lift of .415"/.412". The compression is 9.49 static and it dyno'd at 412 hp @ 4800 rpm and 525 lbft torque at 3300 rpm. It liked 35-37 degrees advance the most with only a hp/lbft, or 2 at most variation between settings.

Dennis

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by SD455DJ

FJ, you're Formula is really quick for the build it has...very impressive. I'm not sure mine will run any quicker to be honest. I wonder why your Formy has 3.31's and not 3.55's being a RAIII/M40 non AC car...or does it have AC?

Dennis

No ac, I put 3.31's in it.

[SD455DJ]

Part 2 of the engine swap was completed today. We started the morning (8:00 am) by priming the oil system, pulling all the spark plugs and performing a cylinder pressure test (all were 175 – 185 psi dry and cold) to confirm the engine didn’t have anything major wrong with it before going through the arduous process of putting it all back together again. We wrapped up the reassembly by 2:00 pm and then took it for a test drive to see what carb and timing issues we had to deal with next.

We set the total timing at 37 degrees where it performed best on the dyno sessions (way back in April 2005!) and reinstalled the original 7040270 Q-jet and 1112009 distributor from the RAIII 400. We left the jetting the way it was (69 jets/37 primary side jetting with ‘DA’ (.0440 M) secondary rods on an ‘N’ hanger). The distributor was still factory original with its heavy advance springs (and too much vertical shaft movement) which didn’t allow total mechanical advance until 4600 rpm! We changed the advance springs to allow total by 3000 rpm. The test drive didn’t have any lean surge, but the vacuum advance canister adds 20 degrees to the total and that will be changed to limit it to 10 degrees total.

It’s interesting to compare the GT-37’s 455HO with 8.6 compression needing 41 degrees total advance to make the most power on the dyno where this 455HO with 9.5 compression only needs 36/37 degrees total for max power showing how much more efficiency higher compression provides.

It’s almost ready to make the trip to this year’s Trans Am Nationals!

Dennis

[srmmmm]

Originally Posted by SD455DJ

Thanks for the info FB! I know this isn't going to be easy to find either a nice enough original, or a reproduction dash (if they are even being made).

Does A.K. just do recovers ala` J.D. with a core you supply?

Dennis

Can't believe I missed this thread, but here are the images of my dash cover as received back from Just Dashes. I thought the grain pattern was very close to the original 1970 and the shop only had to do a little trimming to get everything to fit in correctly. This was the second most expensive item purchased for the restoration, in between the engine rebuild labor and the CVF serpentine kit.