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#21
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Thats what I figured.
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#22
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Quote:
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#23
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This thread reminded me of a conversation I had with a Valvoline Tech Rep.
At the time I was using their 10W-30 VR1 full synthetic racing oil. He told me with clearances under .0025" they did not recommend the use of 20w-50 oil. And somewhat related. When I was dealing with Mark at Luhn Performance regarding his custom built oil pumps he told me that he had conversations with both Mahle and Dura-Bond engineers and he mentioned they tend to shy away from 20W-50 oil in street cars. They would prefer 10W30 or 10W40. At the time I did not ask Mark and he did not offer a specific reason why, and I don't remember if it was related to bearing clearances or piston rings, or both. It was just a passing comment made during a conversation regarding what weight oil I was using. . .
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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) 5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE Last edited by Steve C.; 12-27-2023 at 05:10 PM. |
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#24
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There is some real world engineering that provides some insight. Modern cars have gone to thin rings and very tight tolerances, and very light oil. The 1.5/1.5/3mm LS ring pack has become a very popular one for performance work. Those are usually used with 5W20 to 5W30. Those oil rings are going to like the thinner oil, they're going to have to work harder to control 20W50.
So its not just the bearing clearances, the skirt to wall and ring pack also dictate what oil the motor will really be happy with. For the motor I built, I used the LS ring pack, .0025 main, .0021" rod, .0035" skirt, HR cam with lifter bore mod, oil pump set for 70 PSI with 10W30 oil. 7QT milodon pan and windage tray. So the whole setup is going to be happy with 10W30-10W40 oil. 1/16" high tension rings and looser bearings may like 20W50, but I'd still start it on 10W40 and see how it maintained pressures and controlled the oil.
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I could explain all this to the girl at the parts store, but she'd probably call the asylum. White '67 LeMans 407/TH350/Ford 3.89... RIP Red '67 LeMans. 407/TH400/Ford 3.25 |
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#25
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I was using 5 quarts of VR1 and a quart of Lucas stabilizer but I am gonna run the 10/30 straight and see what happens
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468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior. |
#26
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Shaeffers 10-30 7000 oil is on sale on Amazon.
9.75 $ a quart. About as good a oil as you will ever find. Lots of folks swear by this stuff. Plenty saying their engine sounds quieter and gets a little better MPG. Shaeffers is Americas oldest oil company. They do not recommend any additives at all. Their oil already has Micron Molly in it. Its kinda sticky like Lucas just like it is. This is what I will run. My engine still has break in 10-30 in it right now. https://www.amazon.com/Schaeffer-Man...s%2C209&sr=8-1 |
#27
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Sorry, I was wrong.
Top fuel cars run 70w oil with a special thickener .
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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
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#28
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The how´s and why´s choosing the correct viskosity.
Don´t mind the Corvair, replace with any engine if you like. https://www.widman.biz/uploads/Corvair_oil.pdf https://www.widman.biz/Corvair/English/Links/Oil.html |
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#29
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Quote:
Without knowing the clearances of how an engine was built there is really no way to say what oil it needs, most builders will suggest an oil weight that provides adequate pressures for the engines use & operating situations, and most builders wont build a "street engine" to loose race type clearances. Didnt mean to start a "chit storm" my initial question to the OP was why he was using 20/50, if the builder said to use it thats fine, but the psi the engine runs at shows its doesnt need that thick of oil and as the articles posted say, too thick of oil has no benefit. Neither does crazy amounts of zddp some guys use. Hope the 10/30 drops the psi to a more acceptable level. |
#30
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Quote:
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70 TA, 467 cid IAII, Edelbrock D-port heads, 9.94:1, Butler HR 236/242 @ .050, 520/540 lift, 112 LSA, Q-jet, TKX (2.87 1st/.81 OD), 3.31 rear https://youtube.com/shorts/gG15nb4FWeo?feature=share |
#31
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I would lose the quart of Lucas. Totally unnecessary when and if you go back to VR-1
20-50.
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#32
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Quote:
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Jeff |
#33
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Been running 15w 40 in all my pontiac stuff since the 80s. Right now I run cenpeco 15w 40. Always good pressure.
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72 lemans,455 e-head, UD 255/263 solid flat,3.73 gears,,,10" 4400 converter,, 6.68 at 101.8 mph,,1.44 60 ft.2007 (cam 271/278 roller)9"CC.4.11gear 6.41 at 106.32 mph 1.42 60 ft.(2009) SOLD,SOLD 1970 GTO 455 4 speed #matching,, 3.31 posi.Stock manifolds. # 64 heads.A factory mint tuquoise ,69' judge stripe car. 8.64 @ 87.3 mph on slippery street tires.Bad 2.25 60ft.Owned since 86' |
#34
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My guess…Just switching to a VR1 10w30 racing from a VR1 20w50 racing will change it probably 20 lbs cold @40*F, and 5 to 10 once hot. Valvoline says you can mix them also, a 50/50 mix would be like a 15w40, a 50/50 mix would cut those numbers in half. With the Lucus it could change more, maybe 30 cold and still 5 to 10 hot. Lucus HD stabilizer will add quite a bit of cold pressure. Lucus HD stabilizer is designed to keep the oil from thinning out at higher temps, it works opposite on cold temps. It has it’s place, cold temp start ups with thicker oils and low Viscosity index’s are not ideal at all. I think the index rating for Lucus HD stabilizer is down around 100 to 110, very thick when cold, but does not thin as much when hot. The VR1 20W50 racing Viscosity index is in the 120s, also very thick cold. VR1 10w30 racing, VR1 10w30 synthetic and VR1 20w50 full synthetic all have an index rating of about 150, and work a lot better for cold start ups. Fwiw Last edited by Jay S; 12-30-2023 at 12:17 PM. |
#35
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Quote:
I imagine it’s very difficult to measure an increase in fuel mileage from an oil brand.
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Will Rivera '69 Firebird 400/461, 290+ E D-Ports, HR 230/236, 4l80E, 8.5 Rear, 3.55 gears ‘66 Lemans, 455, KRE D-Ports, TH350, 12 bolt 3.90 gears '69 LeMans Vert, 350, #47 heads: work in progress |
#36
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I put the 10w30 in and it dropped 20 PSI cold and about 5-10 hot. Great trade off cause now I don’t have to wait 2 days to drive off cold till it warms up.
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468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior. |
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#37
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As long as its VR1 which has a additive that keeps a Coating on moving parts.
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#38
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I am putting it in my Tundra and kind of doubt the computer is going to tell me of a MPG increase. My High Port stroker will be getting it too. They are a very interesting oil company for sure. 175 years in the business, longer than anyone else and family owned. No corporate nonsense. You can call them up and talk directly to their tech folks. |
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#39
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Which additive is that? Do other oils have this additive or only VR1??
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#40
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Quote:
https://youtu.be/W48nygk1mlc?si=_zLpzlFfMyxQJiNS
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