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#61
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"Mineral oils lack such a robust boundary layer, as the oil drains quickly to the oil pan when the engine is off. Nevertheless, the synthetic oil boundary layer affords an enthusiast the necessary piece of mind when their vehicle is started after an extended dormancy. By some estimates, initial start-up and running in the first seconds accounts for as much as 90 percent of all engine wear."
This said, the amount of engine wear at initial start-up is often debated. The oil weight doesn't have much to do with how it sticks to the metal inside the engine. It's more about the compound of the oil. .
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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) 5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE Last edited by Steve C.; 01-02-2024 at 05:37 PM. |
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#62
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OK, so let me be the one to pull the pin on the next oil topic grenade...
What synthetic oil has the correct additives for a performance engine with a flat tappet cam, or a severe duty rings? Let's say we've got an application that needs the extra anti-scuff additives, and wants a synthetic in 10W30? Regular oil change intervals (not a short lived non-detergent race-type oil). Lets take my application, which is a moderate HR cam with Total Seal AP stainless rings, with CR-33 facing? Engine is street/strip, gapped for a 200 hit of N2O. (The TS guy said the HFT oils will help ring life) What's a hotrodder to use?
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I could explain all this to the girl at the parts store, but she'd probably call the asylum. White '67 LeMans 407/TH350/Ford 3.89... RIP Red '67 LeMans. 407/TH400/Ford 3.25 Last edited by chiphead; 01-02-2024 at 07:03 PM. |
#63
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The reason, some engine builders don’t recommend running synthetic oil on or in a street car, is because The synthetic oil is more prone to gasket leaks, how true I don’t know, I do know if you’ve been running regular engine oil and switch over to synthetic people would develop oil leaks. For some reason the gaskets no longer seal as good. I’ve seen this happen so the builders air on the side of caution.
Have some run synthetic on a new build and not have issues probably. Is it the end all to be all, I guess it’s all in what you buy into. Guys looking for all out hp big rpm motors choose it for any hp gain. Or hopefully longevity of the parts. I just wouldn’t run it in a streetcar or street strip car, thats just me.
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#64
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I’ve been a long time user of Valvoline VR1, are there better oils out there personally I classify it as just as good as Valvoline. There’s really no scientific proof that one particular oil is the best. At some point its all marketing, vs Valvoline having a history, of being number 1 oil sold of all time. That’s not to discouraged people from making other choices. So when asked that question you’re going to get different opinions.
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#65
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Fact or Myth: Synthetic Oil Causes Leaks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v04QEj84Rv4 Specific esters, called seal swell agents (SSAs) blended into the oil help remove chances of shrinking seals. SSAs are seal conditioners that clean the seal, and the PAOs lubricate the cleaned seal. .
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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) 5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE |
#66
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There are other brands as well. The green stuff is also excellent. There are a few others. As far as leaks, I feel it's an old wives tail. I just don't have that issue with synthetics. Last edited by Formulajones; 01-02-2024 at 07:38 PM. |
#67
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#68
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https://www.redlineoil.com/10w30-motor-oil Amsoil https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-z-ro...motor-oil-zrt/ Drivenhttps://drivenracingoil.com/i-30497805-hr4-10w-30-synthetic-hot-rod-oil.html SAhaeffershttps://www.schaefferoil.com/703-synthetic-plus.html All of these are fine oils for just about anything you want to do. Last edited by Dragncar; 01-03-2024 at 04:48 AM. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Dragncar For This Useful Post: | ||
#69
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#70
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Synthetic oil will not cause gasket leaks if the gaskets are new or in good shape. The only leak issue synthetic can cause is on a older high mile engine it can clean the internals of the engine better than normal oil & expose leaks from areas that were gunked up & now clean or it can find compromised or failed gaskets better than normal oil & have seepage or leaks.... but synthetic in itself does not cause leaks, but can be prone to leakage on some older engines. I run full synthetic in my E-head stroker and have no leaks at the pan or main seal after years of street & strip use. Also run it in my daily driver toyota 4runner with 150k+ miles, but modern toyotas have far better gasket/sealing than classic v-8's. |
#71
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Well the op engine builder told him if he used the synthetic oil, it would void his warranty. So evidently he’s had some bad experiences with it.
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#72
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Yeah that's about the strangest thing I've ever heard.
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The Following User Says Thank You to Formulajones For This Useful Post: | ||
#73
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Well I’ve heard it more the once, it goes to engine builders past experience with synthetic oil‘s. I think because gasket seal issues on new builds, whether it’s a real issue or not. Definitely if you’ve been running a non-synthetic then switch over to synthetic had it happen to me and I didn’t listen when I was told not to. So understandable why some will void warrant.
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#74
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My builder recommended Driven synthetic 15w40 for my street engine. But, I have a HR not a HFT cam. So far, at around 1800 miles or so (can't remember exactly), still no leaks.
As far as synthetic oil "causing" a leak, to me that seems tricky. If you had a motor that was not leaking, and you did something to it that resulted in a leak, then did that cause the leak? I think so. Even if the engine had some broken down gaskets and seals that were not leaking with mineral oil that "system" was working. Now you change an element of that system, and it leaks. Doesn't mean that it caused the seal or gasket problems but it turns a non-leaking engine into a leaking engine. What I have heard said elsewhere is that if you have a motor that started it's life with mineral oil, and you change to synthetic (even in a new-ish, clean, healthy motor), it will leak. I think that's BS. If the engine is new and seals/gaskets are all good, then I don't think it matters. An old engine that's another story.
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70 TA, 467 cid IAII, Edelbrock D-port heads, 9.94:1, Butler HR 236/242 @ .050, 520/540 lift, 112 LSA, Q-jet, TKX (2.87 1st/.81 OD), 3.31 rear https://youtube.com/shorts/gG15nb4FWeo?feature=share |
#75
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Well the OP engine builder most likely meant to not use synthetic with his FT lifters, not void the warranty because it causes leaks on a new engine.
I have switched from conventional to synthetic oil countless times with no leaks... unless a gasket was bad or other problem with a seal. Have also switched back & forth between the 2, both types of oil are compatible with each other and can alternate between the 2. Synthetic blend oils are a combo of regular & synthetic. Cant speak for other builders, just that Ive never heard about voiding a warranty on a rebuilt engine related to leaks from synthetic oil. Some say or said in the past synthetic oil was bad for FT cams & lifters because what I mentioned above, but today there are numerous brands of synthetic oils geared towards hot rods & classics with FT cams. I have used & use full synthetic or blends in a FT cam pontiac v8 and other engines with no problems so hard to say whats right or wrong in that regard. |
#76
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The bottom line is he’s doing the right thing, abiding by his engine builder wishes . I don’t think it’s up to us to criticize his engine builders choice.
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#77
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Ita all c3@p, the "builder" not warrantying a engine is a builder stuck in the past. I agree, break in the engine with conventional break in oil.
And run it for a good long while on mineral oil. Break the cam in, change the mineral oil with more mineral oil and run it for awhile. But then, if the owner wants to put the best synthetic in his engine he can find, so be it. Synthetic is a "little" more leak prone. I also agree, I would not put it in a old school high mileage engine. Thing is, a synthetic 10-30 will have more film strength at operating temp than a conventional 10-40. Its significantly better in every way. Its in my 95K Tundra and my 140K Volvo. No leaks. But my 280K Honda gets 30 WT. It does not leak but uses a little oil. Builders ? Some are modern, some are stuck in the past. Kinda like racers who still use conventional, won't use ported rings-pistons and wont use a vacuum pump. Kinda stuck with the warranty thing. But after its over I would run the oil I want to. Brand ? Its a personal preference thing. Lots of good oils out there. |
#78
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I applaud 64speed, for listening to his engine builder. It would be like me telling my machine shop of over 30 years. Who by the way set the A/S National record and later Nikki setting B/S National record. Dude you’ve got to get your self educated and get with the times..LOL
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#79
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I talked to a Shaeffers tech guy today and asked him about cold starts. I have used Lucas in my oils specially for cold starts as these engines sit for long periods of time. He does not recommend Lucas and says its just a thickener, which it does thicken the oil.
Their Micron Molly additive makes their oil stick to metal for the cold start issue. Their racing oil has a lot of the zinc phosphorus and Micron Molly in it, enough to ruin your emissions stuff in a new car. But its not a non detergent oil either. They do not advertise, a word of mouth thing for them and they are the oldest North American oil company. Lots of industrial stuff. |
#80
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I use what ever my engine builder wants for breakin.After break in it gets a filter change and Mobil1 10-30 goes in if a roller engine.If HFT break in comes out filter change and 10-30 Dyno oil goes in with a 1/2 bottle of EOS.Works for me and the builder can kiss my ass when it’s mine.Tom
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