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#1
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Handy chart
Here's a darn handy chart from Superflow to print off .
On the left is air flow at a 10" depression, you will need to multiply these numbers by 1.67 to attain numbers at 28". On the bottom is your motors cylinder CID. The right hand column is the HP per cylinder you should be able to produce when all is right. So fo example let's take a 400 CID motor and round its cylinder CID off to 50. Your running a head that can flow 234 cfm@28". You should be able to make 60 hp per cylinder ( 480 HP total) , but you will then find that peak HP will not take place until 5000 rpm like the chart is showing you. Info like this should help to make wiser choices in terms of cylinder head flow and Cam's
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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! Last edited by steve25; 01-23-2024 at 07:49 AM. |
#2
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10" is more attainable all day longk. The chart is something for us money-saving home flow folks.
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#3
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Well if for whatever reason if you have numbers at 28” and want them at 10” the just times them by .598.
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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
#4
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Here you go for the 28" conversion
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John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
#5
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It would have been nice if the table went high than 334 cfm.
Stan
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Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#6
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My engine seems to follow this very close:
6X-4 Heads - stock, should flow 206 cfm @ .500 lift I'm using Comp XE275HR with 1.5 rockers, lift is .510" Stroked 350 block to 413 cu in Dyno result for peak was 453HP at 5600rpm. |
#7
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I want to think the formula for HP for one cylinder at 10" is .43xcfm.
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Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
#8
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Yes Skip it is.
, this chart should get folks well into the ball park so to speak. Also note that this chart was really stated to be more for finding the rpm of peak HP, then the dead on amout of peak HP since there are so many more veriables .
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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! Last edited by steve25; 01-23-2024 at 12:40 PM. |
#9
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I believe this will be pretty close to the chart.
Peak HP RPM = 1000 * (cfm / cid) * 2 Stan
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Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm Last edited by Stan Weiss; 01-23-2024 at 02:24 PM. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Stan Weiss For This Useful Post: | ||
#10
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Steve my mentor old machinist had one of the first flow benches around and used 10" and gave me that number. He also had one of the few dynos back then a gauge one you had to watch. to get numbers! And your motor could "run the numbers". Shop across the street had a newer Superflow dyno later that was a good 25% higher on the same motor. Guy that owned that shop was a racer that died in a crash so he bought the shop and took a day or so to calibrate it correctly to read right on.
Why when I see dyno numbers I want to see a time slip with mph and wt to see how close it is if the numbers are real.
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Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
#11
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Skip the problem with using flow numbers taken at 10” is that the velocity is at the low end of what is normally encountered.
In a running motor the depression can range from 0 to 145”.
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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
The Following User Says Thank You to steve25 For This Useful Post: | ||
#12
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Understood, and even comparing the same head using both pressures it can tweak numbers in different areas-so then which is "correct" ?
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Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
#13
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Many years ago I remember flowing my old superchiefs at 10” local shop and they went 510@.900 hehe, then at Meauxs 430@.900. I mentioned it to Meaux and he said very possible on a small bench, so I would be suspect anything at 10”
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1963 Cat SD Clone (old school) streeter 1964 GTO post coupe, tripower, 4speed (build) 1965 GTO 389 tripower, 4 speed, driver 1966 GTO dragcar 1966 GTO Ragtop 1969 Tempest ET clone street/strip 1969 GTO Judge RA lll, auto 1969 GTO limelight Conv. 4speed go and show (sold) 1970 GP SSJ 1970 GTO barn find..TLB…390 horse?….yeh, 390 1972 GTO 455 HO, 4 speed, (build) 1973 Grand Safari wagon, 700hp stoplight sleeper 525ci DCI & 609ci LM V head builds |
The Following User Says Thank You to J.C.you For This Useful Post: | ||
#14
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JC usually the 10" I have seen are less than the 28".
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Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
#15
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It’s by far really more of a deal like what J C posted.
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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
#16
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And when the depressions are at some other non-standard value, there is a formula: new_flow = old_flow * sqrt( new_ depression/old_depression)
Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk |
#17
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Stan I agree, and had I made the chart I would have left off all below the useless 40 cfm@10 / 2000 rpm line and extended the higher cfm range.
Anyway for a whole lot of folks here this going up to 334 cfm and 70 CiD per cylinder serves a good purpose.
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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
#18
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Now, where is that "Choke CSA" CFM vs RPM equation when you need it?
To extend to 367 CFM and 80 CID CYLs: Print, add extended scales, extend them straight lines, and Be happy.
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12.24/111.6MPH/1.76 60'/28"/3.54:1/SP-TH400/469 R96A/236-244-112LC/1050&TorkerI//3850Lbs//15MPG/89oct Sold 2003: 12.00/112MPH/1.61 60'/26"x3.31:1/10"/469 #48/245-255-110LSA/Q-Jet-Torker/3650Lbs//18MPG 94oct Sold 1994: 11.00/123MPH/1.50 60'/29.5"x4.10:1/10"/469 #48/245-255-110LSA/Dual600s-Wenzler/3250Lbs//94oct Last edited by Half-Inch Stud; 01-24-2024 at 09:42 AM. |
#19
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Then you have what type of bench-laminar flow(I think KRE has or had one of those) or "regular", then single orifice or multiple? How well was it calibrated-how many plates for all the ranges? All kinds of variables to try and compare "apples to apples" even on the same head.
We sent my High ports up to Dwayne Porter to flow to compare to Dan Brton's big Superflow here when he ported them for me and my buddy's "little" Superflow 110-3 different set of numbers! We bought some of the "pass around" calibration plates and got his 110 a lot closer-they were originally less than either of the big Superflows. Dwayne does a lot of mopar sstuff-my buddy is a mopar guy-but he has done a set of Pontiac High Ports before.
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Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
#20
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How does VE. fit in these calc's ?
Its assuming 100%?
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If your not at the table you're on the menu A man who falls for everything stands for nothing. |
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