[Jack Gifford]

Engine's starting to look more complete.
Ironing out details of setup and support (oil, fuel, water, etc.) for a dyno session. Also need to mount partial drivetrain (CrowerGlide, in/out box, QC box) to the engine, to allow gearing it to not exceed the 6,000 RPM limit of the dyno brake. No, it's not a puny dyno- it can measure 4,300 lb.ft. of torque @ 6,000 RPM. Omigosh- that's 4,900 HP The shop mostly works with multi-stage-turbo diesels for tractor/truck pulling competition. Maybe Eric and Mike want to dyno the Boss Bird nitro engine? But not through MY QC box- a much beefier gearset would be needed!

[marks73ta]

Jack, I see you are using stock type front and rear caps. Did you use the early beefier stock caps front and rear or are these later V8 caps? I ask because I obtained a full five cap steel set (splayed center caps, front and rear two bolt caps) from an AllPontiac block. The caps are on loan with option to buy if I can use them. According to the machinist I questioned he said they are perfectly adaptable to the block. But, the front and rear caps require the block to have the dowels relocated because the ALLPontiac block is cast with a lower pan rail to register the caps. This requires additional machining and cost. If I retain the original beefy front and rear caps this would eliminate a lot of machining and cost. Can you comment on the caps you used and do you feel comfortable using the cast caps. Any insight from you would be deeply appreciated. Thanks Jack.

Mark

[Jack Gifford]

I've had good success with the early front and rear main caps on the various V8 Pontiacs I've run. The most severe application was the blown-alky hemi in 11+ seasons of competition- at up to 950 HP, and 9,000 RPM many times. And that was on a very fragile old aluminum copy of a 389 block. I certainly broke my share of parts, but ZERO main bearing issues. But you also need to understand that a few other factors helped the reliability- the forged SD crank of only 3.75" stroke with center counterweights added, just 13 PSI boost from a standard-helix non-Teflon'd 6-71, carefully developed drysump oiling, etc.

I had Barcak contribute '59 front/rear caps for the four-cylinder engine.

[marks73ta]

Great help Jack. I think your experience along with talking to Charlie66 who's running a big HP 4 cylinder that the larger early front and rear caps are very reliable. I'll add a center set of Pro-Grams splayed caps and be done with it. Thanks for all your info/help Jack. It's very much appreciated.

Mark

[BruceWilkie]

Fwiw... My Canton oil pan needed mods (Twice actually)to clear my 59 front cap bolts. Pan was originally modded for timing belt plate and didn't clear 59 cap!.

Initially I used an old 400 pan section to convert back. It still hit the bolts.

Fortunately I had saved the pan my 59 came with( even though sump had rusted thru after sitting on the ground for decades). Studs trimmed down flush with nuts gives a scratch more clearance than stock bolts.

Some years ago I had read the early front caps were preferred. Either Paul Spotts or JIm Taylor had also written that # 2 caps(400) are bigger than #1 and can be made to fit #1 position.

[Jack Gifford]

Spent a couple of good hours with the dyno owner yesterday, going over my list of things to deal with prior to a session. Only a few tasks for me- machine a coupler to mate my QC output shaft (1 3/8" 16-spline) to the dyno shaft, modify engine mounts slightly, add bungs for EGT sensors, and provide a magnet mount on my crankshaft for the dyno to log engine speed. A bunch of stuff is available on-site- drysump tank, etc.- and all hose sizes/fittings appear compatible.

I'll probably initially fire up the engine prior to the session, trying to avoid wasting dyno time with any leaks, etc.

[mgarblik]

Getting closer now. I am sure the excitement is really building along with the anxiety. Be assured all the "outside the box" engine guys are watching closely. Best of luck, Jack.

[Tom Vaught]

I saw your great effort at Norwalk, Jack, and wish the best for you on your testing and later runs at Bonneville in the Bonneville "Torpedo" car.

Hang in there.

Tom V.

[Jack Gifford]

Bought a NOS Hilborn F500 fuel filter on e-pay, since they aren't available new anymore. It's truly NOS, but fifty years of shoddy handling had dinged up the fittings slightly. So I set up my re-purposed drillpress vise at 37 degrees and skim-cut about .010" off the flares of the AN fittings.
It was a cheap vise but required considerable effort to re-machine all the dovetails and wedges for true/precise travel as a toolholder.

[Jack Gifford]

Well... my arbitrary goal of engine-running in 2016 just slipped away. This afternoon I finally did hear it fire a half-dozen times on gasoline priming. But it wasn't showing oil pressure on the gauge for the lower end, so didn't dare run it long enough to get alcohol flowing. Stay tuned while I investigate...

[Jack Gifford]

Major OOPS! Look closely at the photo of the fitting that feeds oil to the block's gallery- see the cork? I've got a bad habit of temporarily corking openings to keep dirt out- then forgetting them before assembling. Duh...

[mgarblik]

These type of things can happen easily and do in our case from time to time. One thing we do is attach masking tape flags to things like this to remind is to look at certain things, check things and so forth. Even to the point of reminding us to make sure the engine has oil in it. Fortunately you caught this right away. Best of luck. Now you will have the first super exotic Pontiac engine to run in 2017!!

[Tom Vaught]

I started using TAGs at work in 1978 when the organization I worked for at Ford ran a 3 shift Certification Process. It tanks time to accumulate mileage on a fleet of vehicles and with the number of vehicles and the 3 shifts, no way could a person remember everything that was done on the vehicle/engine/components. SO WE WROTE EVERYTHING DOWN IN A CHRONOLOGY LOG. Where we got the parts, when we installed them, how we installed them, who did the work, if we had a failure of a part, what happened? You get the idea.

We put Tags on everything related to where we were on a engine rebuild or maint process. Between the CHRONOLOGY LOG and the TAGs I could know exactly where I was in the process vs 24 hours earlier when I worked on the engine then.

You don't need a 3 shift operation, you just need a CHRONOLOGY LOG and a TAG process to help you start properly where you left off previously.

In 40 years of working for the company, I never found a better process, and that includes all of the computer tools out there.

So you were hopefully lucky Jack that you did not hurt anything during your short fire-ups under no engine load. The firing loads were still there but the engine was really not doing any work so hopefully you did not hurt the bearings.

Tom V.

[Jack Gifford]

Yeah, I'm not worried about bearings from a few firing strokes. My experience with liberal coatings of Torco assembly lube has me believing that I could probably idle it for about a minute without harm. And from a different perspective- my 1917 Buick bearings survive considerable loading with zero pressure!

It's amazing to me to reflect on how efficiently it can turn a teaspoon of gasoline into heat- near the flanges, the zoomies were almost too hot to touch after just a few firings!

Cranking bottom-end pressure is now 20 PSI. Was busy with other stuff today, but should hear it actually running tomorrow!

[Note to self: stock up on better selection of plastic AN-caps and lose the bag of corks...]

[Jack Gifford]

Still not running. Now it refuses to light-off, even on gas. I'm looking at the magneto possibly not generating enough spark when cranking. Cranking speed isn't very fast- 12.5:1 compression ratio, and the four cylinder actually cranks slower than a comparable V8 would (no cylinder "recoiling" from a compression stroke while the next one is on compression). And it cranked slightly faster initially, before the rings had a chance to seat at all. I crudely estimate it's cranking about 120 RPM. I don't have a way to test secondary voltage in an environment that duplicates the pressure in the engine's chambers. But for comparative purposes I put together a free-air adjustable spark gap fixture. While cranking, the magneto only reliably creates sparks up to about .060" gap. For a frame-of-reference i tested a run-of-the-mill automotive coil, putting a capacitor across it, applying 12 vdc, and then breaking the circuit- it was still arcing at a 1/2" gap before I quit testing! I'll be talking with Don Zig Magnetos soon; it won't surprise me if the mag design needed to be a bit of a compromise between operation at 10,000 RPM and cranking at about 120 RPM. With so many blown-alky engines using aircraft-style starters, it wouldn't be a problem for most magneto users.

[charlie66]

Could you try 2 batteries . My 4 cyl definitely needs full power to fire up right.

You have come a long way , looks really wild in that picture Jack!

Do you have any power expectations with it?

I wish you lots of luck with it !

[Elarson]

Or consider using a 16 volt battery for starting.

Eric

[BruceWilkie]

Yeah 16v battery...if needed ignition cut until starter up to speed. Wont hurt to cut plug gap to .018 or so.

Memories of old magneto snowblower engines and snowmobiles...tug hill winters...trying to pull a rope fast enough in sub zero temps and motors stiff from cold... Sometimes even starting fluid was slow to get things lit.

[twooldgoats]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

...... Wont hurt to cut plug gap to .018 or so.

..........

For what it's worth, I run my gap at .020 with no issues.

Jack, your engine is beautiful!

Jim

[slowbird]

I can't offer much beyond what has been posted but i bet that thing is going to sound crazy (in a good way) with that exhaust. Looking forward to seeing a video of it running. Just an amazing engine you've built!!