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#261
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Makes sense. On aftermarket mini starters to get the gear to flexplate clearance the shim goes between the starter and mounting block.
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68 GTO,3860# Stock Original 400/M-20 Muncie,3.55’s 13.86 @ 100 Old combo: 462 10.75 CR,,SD 330CFM Round Port E's,Old Faithful cam,Jim Hand Continental,3.42's. 1968 Pontiac GTO : 11.114 @ 120.130 MPH New combo: 517 MR-1,10.8 CR,SD 350CFM E's,QFT 950/Northwind,246/252 HR,9.5” 4000 stall,3.42's 636HP/654TQ 1.452 10.603 @ 125.09 http://www.dragtimes.com/Pontiac-GTO...lip-31594.html |
#262
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My stock 72 350 has shims between the starter and block.
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Karl |
#263
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Yeah, that makes sense, effectively spaces the starter top to bottom and mesh between the gears. The flexplate shim increases space from front to back to ensure the flexplate doesn't hit the starter gear when starter isn't running.
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#264
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It's the stack up of tolerances that would need this, the same as starter to block shims. However whenever parts are machined, or exchanged, the factory window of tolerances will no longer apply. I previously mentioned the shim is to make adjustments in lateral placement of the flexplate in relation to the crankshaft. The OP shows the shim in his pictures, so we can assume it was installed as the parts were assembled.
I have inadvertently left the shim out on the crank flange to flexplate, without negative results. Doubtful it's going to impact the noise that the thread is about.
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Brad Yost 1973 T/A (SOLD) 2005 GTO 1984 Grand Prix 100% Pontiacs in my driveway!!! What's in your driveway? If you don't take some of the RACETRACK home with you, Ya got cheated |
#265
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Has this ever been resolved?
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468/TKO600 Ford thru bolt equipped 64 Tempest Custom. Custom Nocturne Blue with black interior. |
#266
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Yank the engine and send it back. The season is over and you’ve gone above and beyond to find the problem.
Having the PY Forum solve this issue at this point is like throwing darts in a dark room with a blindfold on.. Everyone wants to be helpful, but it’s time to get serious. |
#267
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64speed,
No, believe it or not, it hasn't been resolved. I've put less than 200 miles on this car since I got it. Bentwheelbob, Yeah, I think you're right. Me and my buddy's have spent well over 60 hours of diagnosis time and replacing parts. I have about $1,600 in just parts and tools since I got the motor delivered. (Rockers, pushrods, flexplate, fluids, gaskets, I also had a shop inspect the cylinder heads and I bought a bore scope.). It's been tough. If I knew more about cars, I'd have an easier time trying to figure all this out. Since my knowledge is very limited, that why I went Paul. I may try to get the flexplate installed just to rule that out before the motor goes back to Arizona. I'd hate to send the motor back and Paul can't duplicate the knocking noise. I'll let you guys know how it turns out. Thanks for all the suggestions. |
#268
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You got yourself a real mystery there. Change out the flexplate leaving the convertor disconnected and sorry to say, hope for best but prepare for the worst.
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#269
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My money is that it's still banging on the windage tray.
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I could explain all this to the girl at the parts store, but she'd probably call the asylum. White '67 LeMans 407/TH350/Ford 3.89... RIP Red '67 LeMans. 407/TH400/Ford 3.25 |
#270
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This is definitely possible but doesn't seem likely considering it's a factory style pan, factory windage tray (with spacers), factory 455 crank (4.21 stroke).
By comparison, my 461 with the longer 4.25 stroke and aftermarket Tomahawk windage tray doesn't have clearance issues.
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Will Rivera '69 Firebird 400/461, 290+ E D-Ports, HR 230/236, 4l80E, 8.5 Rear, 3.55 gears ‘66 Lemans, 455, KRE D-Ports, TH350, 12 bolt 3.90 gears '69 LeMans Vert, 350, #47 heads: work in progress |
#271
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What else could it be? He tore apart the top end multiple times, which eliminates valve covers, valley pan, lifters, rockers, pushrods.
He doesn't see glitter in the oil, which would be crank endplay. Exhaust banging on the frame? He should see that. Cam endplay? That should destroy the lifters/lobes Rods hitting wrist pins? It should show metal in the filter. Piston slap Should go away when it warms up Its a sheetmetal noise? The tray is damaged, loose or improperly spaced.
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I could explain all this to the girl at the parts store, but she'd probably call the asylum. White '67 LeMans 407/TH350/Ford 3.89... RIP Red '67 LeMans. 407/TH400/Ford 3.25 |
#272
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Quote:
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Will Rivera '69 Firebird 400/461, 290+ E D-Ports, HR 230/236, 4l80E, 8.5 Rear, 3.55 gears ‘66 Lemans, 455, KRE D-Ports, TH350, 12 bolt 3.90 gears '69 LeMans Vert, 350, #47 heads: work in progress |
#273
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X2 on that. Check it again before sending the engine off
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'78 Macho T/A DKM#95, 460cid, SRP pistons, KRE 310 D ports, 3" pypes, Hooker 1 3/4" headers, hydraulic roller, 10" Continental, 3.42 gears 11.5 @117.5mph 3900lbs ([_|_] ##\|/##[_|_]) |
#274
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Yep ... I still think it's a crank weight tapping gently on something.
Wanna see some slow-mo. |
#275
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Is it possible for the Crank Counterweight to rub on the oil pump shaft? If so, I would think you could feel it through the distributor housing. When running, just get your stethoscope on it, or crank the engine by hand with your hand on the rotor?
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1968 Firebird 400 RAII M21, 3.31 12 bolt, Mayfair Maize. 1977 Trans Am W72 400, TH350, 3.23 T Top Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don't. Bill Nye. |
#276
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How would this be possible on a factory block with factory replacement parts? Could H-beam rods affect clearance?
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Will Rivera '69 Firebird 400/461, 290+ E D-Ports, HR 230/236, 4l80E, 8.5 Rear, 3.55 gears ‘66 Lemans, 455, KRE D-Ports, TH350, 12 bolt 3.90 gears '69 LeMans Vert, 350, #47 heads: work in progress |
#277
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On my bone stock engine it's close but not that close maybe 1/4" or 3/16".
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#278
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On may 23rd of this year post 105 I said get it out and back to Paul,4 month gone and a summer lost.I cant say how much im bummed for you.Paul will find it IF its in the engine im sure.Tom
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#279
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NeighborsComplaint,
I may try this weekend to pull the converter back and start the car and see if the knocking noise is still there. I spoke to Paul today and we were talking about the placement of the starter as well. chiphead, I hope it's not the windage tray. Apparently Paul spaces the windage tray with 2 washers. When we pulled the motor, we noticed only one washer (See picture). We used a spacer that provided a little more clearance (See picture). Here is what the pan looked like when we pulled the motor (see pictures) |
#280
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jonmachota78,
I agree. I think at this point, I have to exhaust all means before the motor goes back. At the minimum I have to rule out the flexplate and verify clearance of the starter. dataway, I'll try to get some slow motion video this weekend. I think thats a great idea. tom s, Yeah after the money and time that I have in this car since it's been delivered, that may have been the right thing to do. Missing the whole season was pretty tough considering I'm so close to retirement. I haven't had a chance to enjoy this car since doing so much work to it. TedRamAirII, If we get a chance to mess with the car this weekend, I'll get the stethoscope out and try that! |
Closed Thread |
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