[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by The Champ

Bill

You need to understand the difference between the pro rata warranty period and the free replacement warranty period.

The MAXIMUM free replacement warranty from Bosch on any of their car batteries is 36 months. If you have the Bosch S5 "Premium" battery it has a 96 month pro rata warranty.

If you don't understand what a pro rata warranty is - it means they aren't covering very much of the cost of the new battery when it fails past the free replacement warranty.

I already gave you the info from the Pep Boys site and linked the news release where Bosch upgraded to a 36 month free replacement warranty for their top of the line batteries.

Here is the link to Bosch's website, that further confirms that you know absolutely nothing about the product that you apparently bought at Pep Boys - and left the store thinking you had more than what you really purchased.

http://www.boschautoparts.com/Batter...Batteries.aspx

And under the FWIW department, Bosch batteries are made in the same Johnson Controls factory that makes the ACDelco batteries. It's just that the ACD's are built to higher standards - which is why the ACD carries the longer free replacement warranty.

Nice try.I'm telling you the batteries in my RAM(2 of them) have more than a 36 month free replacement.NOw,you are correct.Obviously,the warrantee has changed.

[JohnS66GTO]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

I have a Bosch and the term is much longer than 36 months.And i'm never wrong.However,it's really a moot point as i'd trust a Bosch product before anything by GM.

I worked as an engineer for Bosch in automotive for 15 years. Tons of GM parts ARE Bosch parts, including some with a Delco name on them (some "ACDelco" spark plugs, for instance). Don't know who makes Bosch batteries - I never bought them. Almost positive Bosch doesn't make them. But for the most part, I agree that Bosch makes good stuff.

I do know that a basic battery I bought at Walmart for under $70 with something like 600 CCA still starts my '66 GTO with stock compression and stock starter hot after 8 years. And I never unhook the battery during winter storage and only used a float charger 2 or 3 of those winters. I'm sure Optimas are great batteries. Lots of expensive parts are great. But lots of expensive parts are overkill too. To each his own...

By the way, when I was at Bosch, our internal joke was "You can buy better than Bosch, but you can't buy more expensive".

John

[6t7goat]

I have used both cheap walmart and optima batteries and the biggest improvement to my cars ability to crank was when I installed a 2 guage positive cable to the starter and ran 2 grounds, one to the block and one to the subframe. The difference was night and day in the way the car cranked over. My 461 with a replacement starter from napa cranks over great with this set up. I have an optima battery that is at least 4 years old.

[mikeb]

I have heard (and would like some confirmation or denial from anyone who knows for sure) that the major difference between a cheap battery and a premium one is the depth of the case under the plates inside. Supposedly the battery dies when enough lead drops off the plates to short out the battery, and a deeper area under the plates makes this process take a lot longer. I dunno, it sounds plausible i suppose.

I've had great luck with duralast batterys from autozone.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by PunchT37

Most batteries are made by only a few factories. Exide and GNB make up the bulk of them. The labels are the difference.

Exide and Johnson Controls are the two biggest.

Exide makes Champion, Exide, Napa, and some EverStart batteries.

Johnson Controls makes Diehard (Sears), Duralast (AutoZone), Interstate, Kirkland (Costco), Motorcraft (Ford), ACDelco (GM), Bosch and some EverStarts.

And it's more than just the labels that are the difference. Motorcraft and ACDelco have much more stringent requirements for their batteries. And Motorcraft and ACDelco batteries are most assuredly not the same.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

Nice try.I'm telling you the batteries in my RAM(2 of them) have more than a 36 month free replacement.NOw,you are correct.Obviously,the warrantee has changed.

I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to take your word.

When did you buy your batteries for your Ram? This year, last year, the year before??? What does it say on the battery? Check out the front of the Bosch battery below.



Are you trying to tell me that Bosch - the battery you claim is superior - actually reduced their warranty on their best battery from 50 months to 36? That's speaks volumes about their battery quality that they needed to reduce the free replacement warranty by 14 months - that's a 28% reduction - on their best battery.

[Formula8]

Originally Posted by PunchT37

1000 amps? You kiddin me? Even 500 amps. Nothin needs that amount of amps. I used to use the Sun "VAT 40" to check starters. Even the bad sounding old school heavy a$$ starters never tested over 300 amps. Most bad starters pulled 250 to 275. Most good ones were at around 175. I got into automotive in 1983 and just got out in 2008. Iv`seen a lot of starting problems.

Spoken like someone who lives where it never gets below zero.

Currently I have a 7 year old 900 amp Diehard mounted in the trunk with 2 gauge wire. Prior to that, I had a 600 amp Diehard and it didn't stand a chance with the stock starter. It worked okay with the RobbMc Starter. Since I upgraded from 600 to 900, I can start my car anytime at any temperature. Since mine is in the trunk, I will try an Optima when this one goes.

[Pontirag]

mikeb

there is a certain amount of truth to the space under the plates statement. but another more important factor is the quality of the lead alloy. a quality lead alloy will not surfate as much when discharged for a long period of time. when sulfated for long periods of time, it drops off and falls to the bottom, when the space fills up enough the the sulfate connects between plates and shorts out the cells

when a battery is discharged sufation(i think thats what its called) occures on the surface of the plates. if the battery is quicly recharged the sulfation proccess chemically reverses.

if the sufate is allowed to remain ie. if the battery is allowed to remain discharged the sulfation becomes permanent. the cells capacity is reduced and the sufate drops into that bottom space andwhen enough builds up the plates connect and short cuircut,

thats the secret to a long battery life; Low electrical demand, sufficient charging capacity and never never let a battery become discharged or remain discharged.

believ it or not but the tar top batterys were designed to be rebuilt. Melt off the tar, pull out the guts flush and clean the plates and interior of the battery reassemble pour more melted tar on top and back to work.

when I was a mechanic in the army back in the day they still included all that battery training and maintenance curriculum. now, like over in Iraq, battery life is measured in months. Nobody seems to know about battery maintenance any more.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Pontirag

there is a certain amount of truth to the space under the plates statement. but another more important factor is the quality of the lead alloy. a quality lead alloy will not surfate as much when discharged for a long period of time.

I'm with you on this... ACDelco uses an enhanced calcium alloy for increased cycle life and improved performance. They also use a proprietary negative paste formulation that resists flaking for improved perfomance and increase life. And they use a framed positive grid technology that reduces vibration (another battery killer). You won't find all three of these features on any other battery that comes out of the Johnson Controls factory.

[PunchT37]

Originally Posted by Formula8

Spoken like someone who lives where it never gets below zero.

Currently I have a 7 year old 900 amp Diehard mounted in the trunk with 2 gauge wire. Prior to that, I had a 600 amp Diehard and it didn't stand a chance with the stock starter. It worked okay with the RobbMc Starter. Since I upgraded from 600 to 900, I can start my car anytime at any temperature. Since mine is in the trunk, I will try an Optima when this one goes.

How did they start cars in cold weather before they ADVERTISED all these massive cold crank amp ratings? I remember when a 500CCA battery was badda$$.

I think all these modern ratings are just that. A selling point. Kinda like the new 650 ft. lb. rated 1/2 inch drive Snap On impact wrench. We tested it against an old cheap 250 lb. rated 1/2 inch wrench. The old 250 wrench did everything the new badda$$ 650 one would do. True 650 torque will break just about every bolt on an average car or truck. These 650 wrenches are being used by MANY young guys to tighten lug nuts. They have the wrench turned all the way up. They don`t use torque bars. 99% of all the wheel studs don`t break. Get a torque wrench and tighten a wheel nut to 650. You`ll never get there.

I just don`t get into all the modern hype over these ratings.

By the way, heat is just as bad as cold on starters and batteries. Batteries drop like flys down here in the summer. Along with alternators and transmissions.

[Pontirag]

its not hype at all. battey technology has jumped leaps and bounds almost daily with so much technology relying on it. the real jumps occured in the compitition between the toyota prius and the chevy volt. lots of technology transfer there

Punch37 is right about the heat. Over in Iraq battery life can be measured in months, mostly due to dumb ignorance.

[Formula8]

Originally Posted by PunchT37

By the way, heat is just as bad as cold on starters and batteries. Batteries drop like flys down here in the summer. Along with alternators and transmissions.

Agreed, try having both ends of the spectrum.

[cenzo]

If you don't mind the gray color, check the specs on Sears Platinum Diehard. 4 year replacement warranty. I have them in two Corvettes, famous for battery drain when off (electronics). Despite sitting sometimes for several weeks, I've never had a failure-to-start. Only $200!!!

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Formula8

Agreed, try having both ends of the spectrum.

Yeah, the recent heat wave (and humidity) has killed quite a few batteries around here lately.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

Nice try.I'm telling you the batteries in my RAM(2 of them) have more than a 36 month free replacement.NOw,you are correct.Obviously,the warrantee has changed.

Hey Bill, just checking in...

You do realize that when Bosch changed the warranty it went from 30 month free replacement to 36 month free replacement. Bosch didn't make their warranty any worse...

[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by cenzo

If you don't mind the gray color, check the specs on Sears Platinum Diehard. 4 year replacement warranty. I have them in two Corvettes, famous for battery drain when off (electronics). Despite sitting sometimes for several weeks, I've never had a failure-to-start. Only $200!!!

From what I've heard those are actually Odyssey AGM batteries,damn good batteries by most all accounts I've come across,word is they're supposed to be waaayyy better than the current Optimas are.

Deka are supposed to be damn fine batteries too,their Intimidator AGM batteries are finding their way into a lotta racecars these days.

Yeah,good batteries usually are'nt cheap batteries though.

FWIW

Bret P.

[SRR]

Originally Posted by Pontirag

mikeb

there is a certain amount of truth to the space under the plates statement. but another more important factor is the quality of the lead alloy. a quality lead alloy will not sulfate as much when discharged for a long period of time. when sulfated for long periods of time, it drops off and falls to the bottom, when the space fills up enough the the sulfate connects between plates and shorts out the cells

when a battery is discharged sufation(i think thats what its called) occurs on the surface of the plates. if the battery is quicly recharged the sulfation process chemically reverses.

if the sufate is allowed to remain ie. if the battery is allowed to remain discharged the sulfation becomes permanent. the cells capacity is reduced and the sufate drops into that bottom space and when enough builds up the plates connect and short cuircut,

thats the secret to a long battery life; Low electrical demand, sufficient charging capacity and never never let a battery become discharged or remain discharged.

believ it or not but the tar top batterys were designed to be rebuilt. Melt off the tar, pull out the guts flush and clean the plates and interior of the battery reassemble pour more melted tar on top and back to work.

when I was a mechanic in the army back in the day they still included all that battery training and maintenance curriculum. now, like over in Iraq, battery life is measured in months. Nobody seems to know about battery maintenance any more.

Not to mention, Keep them clean! Float chargers are worth there weight in gold, use them!

[mikeb]

Originally Posted by Pontirag

mikeb

there is a certain amount of truth to the space under the plates statement. but another more important factor is the quality of the lead alloy. a quality lead alloy will not surfate as much when discharged for a long period of time. when sulfated for long periods of time, it drops off and falls to the bottom, when the space fills up enough the the sulfate connects between plates and shorts out the cells

when a battery is discharged sufation(i think thats what its called) occures on the surface of the plates. if the battery is quicly recharged the sulfation proccess chemically reverses.

if the sufate is allowed to remain ie. if the battery is allowed to remain discharged the sulfation becomes permanent. the cells capacity is reduced and the sufate drops into that bottom space andwhen enough builds up the plates connect and short cuircut,

thats the secret to a long battery life; Low electrical demand, sufficient charging capacity and never never let a battery become discharged or remain discharged.

believ it or not but the tar top batterys were designed to be rebuilt. Melt off the tar, pull out the guts flush and clean the plates and interior of the battery reassemble pour more melted tar on top and back to work.

when I was a mechanic in the army back in the day they still included all that battery training and maintenance curriculum. now, like over in Iraq, battery life is measured in months. Nobody seems to know about battery maintenance any more.

Thanks Pontirag. I didn't know that tar tops were designed to be rebuilt either.

[sonjaab]

I buy the cheapest Sears battery they have. They run $50 bucks and have a 6 month
full replacement guarantee.
HECK........The $140 DieHard only has a year full replacement guarantee!
As long as it meets the vehicles recommend cold cranking amps I'll buy it!

I have the $50 cheapie in all my vehicles and not a issue.............

[The Champ]

I paid less than $80.00 for my ACDelco 34H7YR with a 50 month free replacement warranty and an additionla 34 months pro rata.