[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Option 382

So the question is Keith with your non A/C car and if you put your original valve covers on correctly which side would the oil filler cap be on?

It would be:

RH side: pyramid to the front; oil fill breather

LH side: pyramid to the rear; blank cover (or plugged).

These photos are from Ed Lis' low mileage (4200 miles) '65 GTO. March of 1965 Kansas City build, if memory serves.

K

[Option 382]

I agree with that. My car's valve covers look just like that (mine has the option C/C vent) and I have A/C as well.

[FHummel]

Originally Posted by BradM

Frank

Could you post up a few pics under your hood?

Be glad to send anyone photos via email. Just look up my bio and send me an email request.

This car had never been modified or even had the engine apart until I bought it. I freshened it and resealed everything and put it back together with attention to detail(correctness). The main thing you will notice is that the battery is not correct nor do I have tower clamps and date coded wires. The linkage is the progresswive type that was typically used on the stick cars (mine is an automatic), but I have all the components to reinstall the vacuum system, especially for showing the car in the AACA meets. I have had it on the car and it works perfectly.
This car is a totally numbers/date code matching car that was built in Pontiac MI and sold right here in GA in May of 1965 and has essentially been a southern car all its life. A great driver which is primarily what I use it for. That's one reason I have the aircraft style hose clamps, not the tower type. And I have a Stant radiator cap with the steam release lever.

Thanks,

Frank

[65blackplate]

here is my engine compartment mostly unrestored fremont car

[bill ryder]

I think that's the first time i've seen a Freemont 4V car with the PCV. Interesting. "Bill"! Chrome tube?? WOW

[Option 382]

Now the next question is the 4v air-cleaner. On 65blackplate's pics his air-cleaner is different from what I expected. I thought new for 65 was the pancake style louvered air-cleaner without a snorkel.

But maybe the C/C vent added this syle of air-cleaner.

[65blackplate]

from what i know about it is this air cleaner was for calif cars only

[Option 382]

I think all 65 California cars had to have the C/C vent. Your snorkel is different from the 64 models. I dont know if they borrowed the air cleaner from a big car or the 4v cali air cleaner was just different from anything else.

[geeteeohguy]

Yes, the CA 4v cars did not have the pancake air cleaner. They had the one Blackplate has. This was called a 'closed system'. The CA tripower cars had a crankcase breather tube to the baseplate of the center carb air cleaner. I have a set of those off of a '66 I picked up 30+ years back. The federal cars for '65 had no closed breather system, and used a pancake cleaner for the 4v and no tube on the center air cleaner base for trips. After all these years, it looks like I'm going to have to swap my valve covers around! Funny, but recently a post popped up where a '65 owner installed his valve covers deliberately "incorrectly" so that the oil filler was on the dipstick side (pass side) for sake of convenience. This bears more investigation for me, at least. Still not certainhow the valve covers originally were...I believe I've seen factory photos that show the oil filler on the drivers side.

[John V.]

Calif Closed Crankcase Vent System went into production for all Pontiacs sold to a Calif Dealer starting Jan 1, 1964.

The Oil Cap is ALWAYS on the RH side for a '64/'65 Pontiac V8.

The Engine Assemblies shipped complete with valve covers to the Final Plant.

When shipped, nobody had any idea what car the engine would be installed in.

Didn't matter if the car was Tri-Power, 4 bbl, or 2 bbl, 326 or 389, with or without A/C. Oil fill should be on the RH side to be factory correct (could be an exception in the case of an assembly error at the Engine Plant but not on purpose).

With the advent of the CCCV System for Calif cars, the LH cover was revised to provide the necessary hole for the vent hose (plugged for non-CCCV applications). There is some debate whether all non-CCCV applications got the revised LH cover with the hole and plug by the time Jan 1, 1964 rolled around. But the same dilemma would have existed for the Assembly Plant if this wasn't the case, since nobody at the Engine Plant could have known if a particular Engine Assembly would eventually be installed in a Calif car or not, they had to anticipate all of them being a possibility. I'm not even sure the Engine Plant would have known WHERE the Engione Assembly was to be shipped off to.

Conceivably, they could have dealt with the Callif builds at the Final Plant and swapped the LH valve covers from a blank type to the Calif type when necessary. But that would have been burdensome for Plants like Fremont and South Gate that mostly built Calif cars.

This changed in '66. But all '64/65s should have the oil fill on the RH cover.

Not only were the Air Cleaners specific to the CCCV application, so was the Oil Fill Cap. It doubled as a Vent for the non-CCCV application. For the CCCV application, the Oil Cap was non-vented.

FHummel, you mention that "it was usual that the valve covers were reversed on A/C cars, with the oil filler on the driver's side rather than the passenger side".

Do you mean reversed in the field?

I'm certain the factory did not swap them side to side just because the car was optioned with A/C.

I am curious to know if somebody has evidence to the contrary, always open to learning something new.

[Option 382]

Wow John V! On 65blackplate he also has a pancake style oil filler cap. Is that a CCCV part or dealer installed option or aftermarker or what?

[65blackplate]

it is an ac part was on the car when i bought it

[60sstuff]

Originally Posted by John V.

The Oil Cap is ALWAYS on the RH side for a '64/'65 Pontiac V8.

Didn't matter if the car was Tri-Power, 4 bbl, or 2 bbl, 326 or 389, with or without A/C. Oil fill should be on the RH side to be factory correct (could be an exception in the case of an assembly error at the Engine Plant but not on purpose).

Not only were the Air Cleaners specific to the CCCV application, so was the Oil Fill Cap. For the CCCV application, the Oil Cap was non-vented.

I tend to closely follow and research the 64-67 GTO's with the CPCV that were "sold new" in California. By comparison there were not many to begin with and most owners disgarded this system decades ago wanting max performance. To see one of these Calif. examples today factory intact is rare! As John V. explained these cars were required to have the CPCV (closed positive crankcase ventilation) system. The 1965 GTO's with 4bbl. and CPCV had a large black painted base with snorkel and chrome lid. Also the bent steel vent tube over to LH valve cover was black paint or possibly cad. plated, but NOT chrome! The oil fill cap (always on RH side) for 4bbl. or tri-power with the CPCV system was a flat twist in with AC stamped in the center.

Below are a few Calif. CPCV sample pics - 65 4bbl. road test and a 65 tri-power survivor both having the OEM AC oil fill cap.

66 GTO's "ALWAYS" had the oil fill cap on the LH (opposite side from 64-65) with blank valve cover on RH side. Other changes were made for this year in regard to the CPCV system.

[Option 382]

Now my car is not a California car but has the CCCV option that I ordered from the factory but it does not have the non vented cap (pancake look) it has the normal looking GTO oil filler cap. The car was made in Baltimore and I'm going to assume there was no reason for Baltimore to have these Cali oil caps so they used a normal GTO cap instead.

[65blackplate]

so 60sstuff you think my air cleaner and breather tube was chromed by somebody and the rest of the car was bone stock original paint un-restored car with full wheel covers and all ??

[John V.]

Originally Posted by Option 382

Now my car is not a California car but has the CCCV option that I ordered from the factory but it does not have the non vented cap (pancake look) it has the normal looking GTO oil filler cap. The car was made in Baltimore and I'm going to assume there was no reason for Baltimore to have these Cali oil caps so they used a normal GTO cap instead.

I have wondered in the past if the CCCV System could be ordered.

The use of the vented cap however is strange.

I would kinda agree with your premise that Baltimore wouldn't typically build a car with the CCCV, so why stock the special oil caps? Of course, the same could be said of the specific air cleaners and plumbing components, so the logic begins to crumble.

And the use of the the vented cap means it wasn't a closed system, kinda defeats the purpose.

The regular PCV captured and reburned crankcase vapor. Under low vac conditions, however, crankcase vapor would escape from the vented oil cap.

Calif legislated the closed system to stop these fugitive vapors under low vac conditions. It starts with the non-vented oil cap.

The rest of the plumbing for the CCCV system was so that under low vac conditions, the vapor would be vented to the air cleaner where they could be sucked back into the engine thru the carb(s) to be reburned. This was a "passive" system. The plumbing just provided the escape route for excess crankcase vapors.

Under normal engine vac, the Positive Crankcase Ventilation (PCV) system relied on manifold vac to open the PCV valve and "actively" pull vapors out of the crankcase and return them to the intake manifold where they would mix with the air/fuel charge and be reburned in the engine.

With a vented oil cap, the CCCV plumbing was essentially window dressing. Under low vac conditions (PCV valve closed), crankcase vapors were free to escape thru the oil cap. The vapors would take the path of least resistance. I can't say for certain they would not travel thru the CCCV system plumbing, but that wouldn't be a given.

Since you are the original owner, I assume the cap wasn't swapped at some point. But it is strange to have been built this way. What in the world prompted you to order the CCCV system?

[klunker]

Originally Posted by 65blackplate

from what i know about it is this air cleaner was for calif cars only

While not exactly the same (no tube provision) my 326 HO Tempest uses the same air cleaner. I always thought it odd that the air cleaner could be installed and spun 360 degrees, no indexing for rotation on it. I always wondered where the snorkle should point. After seeing yours it makes sense in that yours is indexed via the vent tube. I'll have to look at mine closer to see if there is any hole in my cover or anything for a tube location.

[cuz68]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

Yes,photos please. All of my '65 and '66 GTO's have always had the oil filler on the driver's side. Also, what did the Iris Mist car actually sell for?

66k

[Old Goat Racer]

Center head bolt on the black car looks like a '66 ?

[Option 382]

Referring to the positive crankcase system for the 1965 GTO. I ordered my 65 GTO in September 1964 . It was a special order by myself and has many options. The GTO was built in Baltimore and delivered in January 1965. The cost for that option was less than $10.00. The chrome plated right side oil filler cap has the normal vent holes in the bottom side of the cap . On the left side of the engine, a black painted metal tube comes up to a metal three way divider. This divider distributes the crankcase oil fumes to each of the tri-power air cleaners. The system appearently works by drawing air in through the right side oil filler cap sucking air and oil fumes through the lower part of the engine and out of the left side valve cover into the air cleaner bases. This system does not contain the PCV valve contained on later year cars that is collected into the under side of the carburetor or intake manifold. The factory system as supplied on my 65 GTO works best when the engine is not at idle and the engine is running at some RPM. Vacuum at the air cleaner side is not much at engine idle. My reason for ordering this system was that I did not like seeing oil fumes coming from the cars that I owned in the 1950s.