[Dragncar]

You people always talking crap about things made in China/Tiwan need to get a life.The rods are inexpensive and need to be gone over with a fine tooth comb but they are here and all of the b!tching in the world is not going to change it.I chose Crower rods beacause I could afford them,some people can not so they buy a 200$ CAT rod.Good for them,get off of there back.This is not a political site,it is a site about cars.A "excape" from that crap,get it.Am I suppossed to feel bad beacause I bought a Eagle crank and could not afford a billet beacause someone says I should.Get real

[Lerry: The Body Ventura..]

I don't know but the bickering is sometimes more interesting that the topics that are being argued back and forth

[tom s]

Guys,you CANT get away from China goods.Just try and find any sport shoes,fishing reels or rods that ARNT made in China.In order to be in business in the US you will HAVE to go to China.Our great american co. K2 is buying up co. to take production to China.Not saying it right but just a fact of life.Nike,Reebok,New Balance,Adidas,virtually ALL china made.Tom

[Lerry: The Body Ventura..]

Our largest concern with China is our billions of dollar trade deffecit we have with them. They pirate our goods, such as the crankshafts mentioned. Copycat it with substandard alloyed steel and then turn around and sell back to our country for a lesser price than the good old USA MADE product. For people that don't want to spend or cannot afford the better quality. We have to keep the open trade with them. If we didn't it would put a lot of people out of work in this country. So we have to go on eating their sh-t (and I don't mean their rubber fake dog sh-t) one of their more signature of quality products that is being imported into this country. We are just one of the countries making them the most advanced country economically $ in the world today. The cost of gas has risen in the last few years(not including the recent hurricane down south) because of fact everybody can afford cars now in China. The world glut/demand for oil is mainly focused on China's enormous population starting to drive cars instead of bicycles which they once did twenty years ago. Sorry for the long post and sorry that we're steerinig somewhat off the race topic. We're all people and people will tend to drift from one subject to another. Anyways instead of taking the time to type and complain about it. Just click the next topic and move on.....

[theoldone]

Originally Posted by tom s

Guys,you CANT get away from China goods.Just try and find any sport shoes,fishing reels or rods that ARNT made in China.In order to be in business in the US you will HAVE to go to China.Our great american co. K2 is buying up co. to take production to China.Not saying it right but just a fact of life.Nike,Reebok,New Balance,Adidas,virtually ALL china made.Tom

Tom, you are saying that because you own a few hardware stores and sell Chinese goods, correct ?

We CAN get away from Chinese goods- don't buy Chinese made rods, cranks, or intakes, and don't put them on your Pontiac.

very easy to avoid

[theoldone]

Originally Posted by Bruce Meyer

Enough of the Bush Bashing. Yeah he sucks but you guys are getting to sound like Media Parrots.

Its simple- JUST SAY NO TO CHINESE PARTS!

amen to that- I second the motion

Bush Bashing is an IQ test- if you do it, you flunked !

[tom s]

Charlie,what I am saying it is getting HARDER to find anything made in this country BECAUSE the mfg. are going to China to remain competive!The US co. are the ones that went to China to get things made cheaper.50 years ago it was Japan,then Tiawan,and now Mainland.Now Vietnam is being looked into.WE took our products offshore to have then KNOCKED off."oldone" was not even born when this started so why dont you come up with a plan to have our union worker work for $30 a month and we can bring production back to this country.LOL,Tom Oh and buy the way it is 300 "Sporting Goods" stores.

[Brian Baker]

Never mind the trade deficit with China, all of their profit goes to the Communist government. By law, the government must own 51% of all businesses. Guess what they're doing with the profit? Building tanks, ships, submarines, missiles, guns, etc. But that's a topic for the lobby.

Hey, when the Eagle cast cranks came out, it offered an inexpensive way to increase the stroke a bit on my 455, and the crank was just as good, if not better than a 30+ year old factory crank. The new forged cranks coming out in the next 6 months will be Chinese too. I'll be buying one of them as well. If there were an alternative (other than buying a billet at twice the price), I'd take it, but there isn't.

[theoldone]

Originally Posted by tom s

Charlie,what I am saying it is getting HARDER to find anything made in this country BECAUSE the mfg. are going to China to remain competive!The US co. are the ones that went to China to get things made cheaper.50 years ago it was Japan,then Tiawan,and now Mainland.Now Vietnam is being looked into.WE took our products offshore to have then KNOCKED off."oldone" was not even born when this started so why dont you come up with a plan to have our union worker work for $30 a month and we can bring production back to this country.LOL,Tom Oh and buy the way it is 300 "Sporting Goods" stores.

When I was born, everything was still made here, and if it said "made in Japan", it was pitched in the trash.

it was a very good year !

how much longer will you live being you have 300 stores ?

[theoldone]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

Never mind the trade deficit with China, all of their profit goes to the Communist government. By law, the government must own 51% of all businesses. Guess what they're doing with the profit? Building tanks, ships, submarines, missiles, guns, etc. But that's a topic for the lobby.

Hey, when the Eagle cast cranks came out, it offered an inexpensive way to increase the stroke a bit on my 455, and the crank was just as good, if not better than a 30+ year old factory crank. The new forged cranks coming out in the next 6 months will be Chinese too. I'll be buying one of them as well. If there were an alternative (other than buying a billet at twice the price), I'd take it, but there isn't.

good points- but I strongly believe they could make those parts here in the USA and price them effectively. Our minimum wage isn't exactly astronomical- around $6 an hour- and I'm sure our workers are at LEAST as skilled as the workers in those gun factory pics ?? And there's no language barrier as well.

FWIW, that gun maker had to COMPLETELY REBUILD every single one of those guns he had made in China- the threads in the guns did not match the hardware, parts were machined to wrong specs, etc. etc. So after getting a gun from China, he basically had to remanufacture it here, to make it sellable and shootable.

The smarter shooters were buying the ORIGINAL 1887 and 1897 vintage Browning-designed, Winchester-built guns, that are over 100 years old now- and having those rebuilt, with better results.

So much for "modern technology" in manufacturing- the 1800's stuff was better !

Then again, John Moses Browning wasn't your "average" American.

The guns being reproduced are the lever-action shotguns the same as the one used in the "terminator 2" movie by Arnie S. Governator.

[tom s]

Charlie,WHEN did "Browning" take many of their gun mfg. to Japan?When did "Winchester" take some off their gun mfg. to Japan?Tom

[Brian Baker]

Can't speak for Winchester, but Browning has had some of their works in Japan for at least 20 years. When I was working retail firearm sales part time, we'd get used Browning A5's in from time to time. The first words out of a potential customers mouth were "Belgium barrel?"

[tom s]

Brian,the Citori came into the US in 1973 as a complete made in Japan O&U,the Win 101 was also made in Japan.They both went overseas to meet the demand for a afforable firearm.Not unlike the aftermarket HP auto parts business.I can just see someone trying to get the union gun making workers to work for $6 an hour!LOL!Lets see,$6 hour,40 hours a week,240 a week,960 a month,yea that will work.I think our union whrse house workers make $17!Tom

[Bruce Meyer]

Brian Baker wrote " Hey, when the Eagle cast cranks came out, it offered an inexpensive way to increase the stroke a bit on my 455, and the crank was just as good, if not better than a 30+ year old factory crank. "

I beg to differ. In the past few years Ive seen way too many Eagle crank failures at the local track I race at. Before they came out it was very rare that you heard of a factory cast crank failure. Ill take my 30 year old factory crank any day over any Chinese crank.

[Brian Baker]

To each his own...I purchased my crank AFTER the inital run of problem cranks (ie - the thrust bearing issues). My crank withstood 800-HP and checked out fine upon disassembly and magnafluxing..

[theoldone]

the best guns are still made here, or in Germany, Great Britain, Belgium,

not Japan and China.

Where does Weatherby make their guns ?

[tom s]

Howa of Japan make some of the Weatherby guns.FYI,There are virtually NO high quality mass prerduced long guns made in this country anymore,they are made OFFSHORE!, Italy,Germany or JAPAN,last time I looked is STILL offshore.Remington is bringing their entry level O/Us from RUSSIA.Tom

[Brian Baker]

Springfield would be the only domestic manufacturer I can think of that still makes long guns in mass quantity...and their production numbers are not what I would call large by any stretch.

[The Boss]

If you think those places look out of date, you must have never toured the Springfield Armory or the Colt plant in Hartford - the links you posted show facilities much cleaner and maybe slightly more advanced.

As for your knowledge of life in China, I'm not sure what it's based on but I spent 3 weeks there last October and my first hand experience tells me it's a country that will make the jump from Industrial Revolution to the new millenium in about another 10 years. As for people being un-happy, I traveled through farming villages with dirt floors in the homes to major cities with high tech cable stay bridges and nobody seemed unhappy. Everywhere I went people were smiling and busy working away - try that in New York City or even at your local 7-Eleven.

[brians]

Before I go into any of this let me say that I am completely against US products being shipped to a communist country or any low cost producing country for that fact. I grew up in a household that if I were even seen in a foreign car, I would have been kicked out.

Two years ago I was made the lead engineer in my divisions overseas sourcing program. (Why they wanted me, I’ll never understand) China has been our number one location so I'm knee deep in this stuff. We make some very intricate valve and fluid moving products. (Many with tolerances in the tenths)

Again, am I for it – No, but can I understand it – Yes.
Our US economy is based on the lowest cost and profit. You can’t go head to head with a company that sources comparable products overseas - you will not be price competitive.

Example – We sent a quote out for fully machined forged flange. Best US price was over $3 plus 15K in tooling. A source in China quoted the same part under $2 no tooling - US dock. PPAP samples came in Thursday and they are great.


I have been in some plants over there that I did not even want to breath in, and then I have been in some very clean modern plants. Many are ISO and TS certified. Many do have very old equipment, but as long as it can produce a repeatable quality part, I don’t cared. This is not to say that I am confident enough yet to eliminate incoming inspections. On the contrary, I increased the number of parts inspected until I feel confident.

I’ve learned a few things:
1) Common known steels are very difficult to get in China. They do have some very poor grades in China, but also some good grades. I have learned to never trust their “equivalent”. I will research the grades myself and usually ask for steel samples to analyst in the states.

2) You have to specify EVERYTHING. The use of industry specs (SAE, Din ect.) means nothing. All dimensions and tolerances have to be spelled out on the prints. Title block generic tolerances will not be followed. Geometric characteristic symbols are a no-no. If flatness is needed, it has to be spelled out.

On the gunmaker:
Not sure why he brought in parts that he had to completely remachine?? They are brought in to your specifications or you reject them. No different then you would expect from a US supplier.

Brian