[Judge273]

The VOE option was short lived, and was stated in books and bulletins that would be excluded from RA engines. Standard 400's only. But, that doesn't mean it couldn't slip through.

The only thing it does is make the exhaust louder. The racers want speed, and to get faster they need to reduce weight. No heater, no radio, no dum-dum are evidence of that.

I wonder if there were other ways too. Like thinner sheet metal, or lighter brake rotors, bench seats, no consoles, etc.. IMO that would make more sense.

[supcarbob]

MEMO was used through out the years for special equipment or special non production colors on all models not just GTO.From all invoices I have the MEMO number increased as all production vins increased and started over every year. In 1966 it was on invoice for special colors also of Pontiac released special colors(see example,this was a Cadet Blue special color car. In 1967 up special non production colors only received memo. We sold a lot of special colors in 67 and up years and none have memo for the available special colors released for Pontiac models. The '68 Bonneville attached was a special Buick Riviera color"Buckskin' so it received a MEMO.Also,notice the 'dlr. service' charge listed. This was used when you picked car up directly from factory. They used to let you pick cars up at home Pontiac plant and they charged you for the pre delivery as car was being driven from plant.The '68 GTO was 'Tiger Gold' so it received MEMO.I also have some police car invoices with memo for special paint schemes and equipment requested by police.They used MEMO in to late '70s as I also have some '79 Bonnevilles that we orderd with Cadillac leather interior(leather was not available as a regular option back then on '79 Bonneville). Useless knowledge on this post but wanted to give idea what MEMO was used for.
I also have a June '69 produced GTO with MEMO and 'Special Equipment' for 105.32. I have promised owner not to post this invoice.
I believe the 'Special Equipment' listing is for the special ignition which was to be used on Ram Air V. This included a special inner fender well mounted control unit and harness that was never used in assembly line production.

[Steve Hoog]

Bob

Excellent post!!! You really pull out some awesome stuff.

What does the Judge have special on it, I hope you can share that.

You have also given me a good lead with a big question I have on the Blue Bobcat car, I'll show you later on that.

Again, sweet information!!!

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Bob, on the 69 GTO SPEC EQUIP car could you maybe perhaps just post the main body of the invoice - or not disclose any pertinent identifiers - by owners permission ?

Can you tell us anything ... was it an IV Car ?

By any chance was it the Burgandy colored 69 you had that I saw in Kentucky ?

If I had a 69 or 70 Car with the SPEC EQUIP - I would use the invoice like a teenager uses a Hustler magazine. (...ooops...)

[supcarbob]

This is all I can do.It is -not- orange..

[Steve Hoog]

Bob

I was still at work, and now that I've re read it I believe you meant the 69 had the special distributor?

I don't think that would work without the RAV block, take a look at the gear and housing. You can see it is enlarged like the 73-74 SD.

I have talked to Brian Ballish, and he said most if not all the RAV distributors they used at Royal were point type. That would appear to be correct, I believe you can see the points in the 350 HO Firebird in one of the pictures where they were working on it in Florida 1969 V test. I have also posted the Blueprint of the RAV distributor, harness, and ignition module for a 69 car. So it's hard to tell for sure what was up, but I suspect that transistorized ignition was not used until or intended for use until 1970 ish. That is just a best guess at this point.

Then about the delivery charge. I have an invoice with handwritten notes, best some of us can tell this is what it says:

COD 204154 12-10-68 for 30.00 Dlr Serv
Car serviced before we repurchased
Returned to Fast co. Care per
JT Wilson's ltr 11/7/68

This car was built in Baltimore, then brought back to The Retail Store for purchase. It was probably handled in this way because they weren't building GTO's at the Pontiac Plant yet.

I thought they had actually serviced the car at the dealership originally shipped to, do you concur or think it had something to do with the shipping thing you referred to?

[GTO JOHN]

Here is a possibility:

The $105.32 special equipment charge was for option code 321 Basic Options Group which carried a price of $107.43 when added to a RA equipped car ($116.91 when added to a non-RA car) MINUS $2.11 for the special order axle ratio that was already on the option list. This would give you the $105.32 and add options 401-AM Radio, 441-RH Vanity Mirror, 444-Outside Remote Mirror, 492-Rally Clock, 554-Deck Lid Release.

A long shot but the math works out and would put radios in all these cars too. Any thoughts?

[dstryr]

Seems like $105.32 was a very popular 'option price'.
My Judge shipped April 9, '69

PWR STRG W/T 105.32 501

Probably several options with the same List Price for the bean counters?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The Silver 70 already had radio on invoice.

The 105.32 charge - I think a lot of us have also taken that it was just something used for the bean machine.

As far as what these Cars with SPEC EQUIP actually received - the sky is almost the limit. They probably were not all just the exact same. Quite a few probably were close though.

The role that "engineering" played in delivering new or exotic offerings has always had evidence. A lot of our knowledge grows daily almost. Seems like there is a surprise around almost every corner.

The White Tin Indian is said to have come with a Ram V bottom end and an IV top end. That is also the way it has been restored. Who is to say V heads weren't also supplied when requested on those blocks.

Wouldn't be surprised if some of those ignition distributors were turned down to fit a production style block - if necessary or desired. Don't know if they took the smaller gear, but that can be changed too. Just food for thoughts and what-nots.

MANY Thanks to Bob for all he does. Steve, too.

[Steve Hoog]

I suppose Bob and Ron are talking about the same car, since "memo 2-170" is in play on both.

So there are at least 170 69's and 167 70's, if not more.

The Boss may have been kidding a little, but this was essentially Pontiac's equal to the COPO car. Whether it be just a special paint or a special engine from engineering, it was Pontiac's dance around the system. The same exact thing COPO was used for.

So in my opinion; all you people out there that have one of these "memo special equip" Pontiac's, you have the cream of the crop. What a cool thing.

Now I'll go back to my lowly WT car, I've heard rumors Angelia Jolie has been in my car if that helps. Inside joke folks, pay no attention to this last statement.

[Ron Landis]

same car, so I guess my lips are sealed. I took no oath, but I'm not one to gossip.[lol] Anyway, I explained the "pricing" situation over in the "Judges only" section. Steve, I don't drink beer. Now, break out some Mr. John R. Daniels...!!! BTW...I did suggest to the owner that I know where no less than three RAVs are sitting...still in the crates! His car is the prime candidate.

[Steve Hoog]

Ron

You tell the owner congradulations for me, I'm envious of anyone that has a memo car.

Hopefully some day he will share some pics.

JD on the way!

[Ron Landis]

since I've offered to help him with some things concerning the car, I'll be allowed to take some pix in exchange. I just want to document some correct finishes and paint markings and such. He's a good dude, and we help each other when we can. That's why I wouldn't want to go against his wishes om amy info disclosed. He handed me the paperwork on the car and said nothing about being secretive, but until he says it's OK with him, I wouldn't publish it.

[roundportponchos]

Bob. I have a 70 RAIV Judge, * on PHS for color. - - on trim plate. I think it has change alert also, is that for the non pontiac color? It's Daytona Yellow, no price charged for special paint?

Originally Posted by supcarbob

MEMO was used through out the years for special equipment or special non production colors on all models not just GTO.From all invoices I have the MEMO number increased as all production vins increased and started over every year. In 1966 it was on invoice for special colors also of Pontiac released special colors(see example,this was a Cadet Blue special color car. In 1967 up special non production colors only received memo. We sold a lot of special colors in 67 and up years and none have memo for the available special colors released for Pontiac models. The '68 Bonneville attached was a special Buick Riviera color"Buckskin' so it received a MEMO.Also,notice the 'dlr. service' charge listed. This was used when you picked car up directly from factory. They used to let you pick cars up at home Pontiac plant and they charged you for the pre delivery as car was being driven from plant.The '68 GTO was 'Tiger Gold' so it received MEMO.I also have some police car invoices with memo for special paint schemes and equipment requested by police.They used MEMO in to late '70s as I also have some '79 Bonnevilles that we orderd with Cadillac leather interior(leather was not available as a regular option back then on '79 Bonneville). Useless knowledge on this post but wanted to give idea what MEMO was used for.
I also have a June '69 produced GTO with MEMO and 'Special Equipment' for 105.32. I have promised owner not to post this invoice.
I believe the 'Special Equipment' listing is for the special ignition which was to be used on Ram Air V. This included a special inner fender well mounted control unit and harness that was never used in assembly line production.

[henley]

HELLO.. RON POSTED THIS QUESTION ON MY BEHALF.. HERE IS THE STORY..
MY NEIGHBOR TOLD ME OF A "ORANGE CAR LIKE I HAVE" AT A IMPOUND LOT IN AKRON OHIO. SO NEEDLESS TO SAY MY RADOR WENT UP, HE TOLD ME WHERE AND THAT NIGHT WE WENT TO SEE ABOUT THE CAR. IT LOOKED LIKE A GTO WITH A WING THROUGH THE GATES. WE CALLED THE NEXT DAY AND THEY SAID THAT IT WAS 1969 GTO,A REPO CAR AND TO KEEP CHECKING BACK FOR WHEN IT WOULD GO UP FOR AUCTION. WELL TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT WHEN IT FINALLY WENT UP FOR AUCTION THE FRIDAY BEFORE YOU WERE ALLOWED TO GO IN AND INSPECT IT. IT WAS PRETTY MUCH SPOTLESS, WITH A JUDGE EMBLEM ON THE GLOVEBOX AND WING; WE WROTE DOWN THE VIN NUMBER AND LEFT. WE FAXED IN THE VIN NUMBER FOR THE PHS, A FEW HOURS LATER IT CAME BACK A RAIV JUDGE. WE THOUGHT THE NEXT TUESDAY WOULD NEVER COME, IMAGINE SITTING ON THIS ALL WEEKEND. FINALLY THE AUCTION STARTED AND WE HAD NO IDEA IF ANYONE ELSE RAN THE PHS AND KNEW IT WAS A RAIV JUDGE. THE AUCTIONEER SAID HE THOUGHT IT WAS A LEMANS BECAUSE IT HAD A 10 BOLT REAREND.HAHA.. BOTTOM LINE I GOT THE CAR FOR $4,600.00, I COULD NOT PAY FOR IT QUICK ENOUGH. WENT HOME AND PLUGED IN SOME WIRES AND IT STARTED RIGHT UP. SO THAT IS THE BEGINING OF THE STORY, NOW WE WOULD LIKE TO FIND OUT SOME HISTORY WITH THE SPECIAL OPTION. THE BUILD SHEET IS AS FOLLOWS.. 1969 GTO WITH THE FOLLOWING OPTIONS.. 347 4BBL R/A IV, 361 SAF-T-TR-HD, 472 CONSOLE, 532 TINTED WS, 351 TURB/HYDR, 362 4:33 REAR END, 484 RALLY GAGES, 554 THE JUDGE, HERE IS WHAT WE NEED HELP WITH: SPEC EQUIP $105.32 78.00 AND MEMO 2-170 NOTHING ELSE??????? THE CAR ONLY READS 55 MILES AND WHEN WE CHECKED IT OUT IT HAS NOT EVER BEEN REGISTERED IN OHIO. IT IS WHITE WITH A BLACK INTERIOR. IF ANYONE CAN HELP WITH THIS LET US KNOW. ON A SIDE NOTE THE CAR DID NOT HAVE THE RIGHT MOTOR IN IT, SOOOOOOO IF ANYONE HAS ANY RAIV ENGINE PARTS WE ARE LOOKING TO PUT IT BACK TO ORIGINAL. E-MAIL AT: AMEHENLEY1@MSN.COM OR CALL CHUCK AT 330-714-7916 OR 330-699-5566.

[PonchoV8]

Maybe the last owner that it was repoed from might have some info. You don't have to tell him you're the new owner or anything about the location, etc. Think up some story like maybe thru the auction service or something. might get some history on the car. Perhaps the name of the owner previous to this last guy.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

HENLEY: That is one wild story on getting that Judge and how you got it. How long ago did you get the Car ? I don't think in any way that the SPEC EQUIP on your Car and at least 2 of the others has anything to do with paint at all. What is the build date on your data plate ? Congratulations for Sure !



On a different note : I have seen two 70 Judge invoices (one of them the IV Daytona Yellow above - the other is III and thought to be 69 LimeLight but no paper to prove exact) that were special order paint with the same * on invoices, and - - on data plates. Neither of them has a charge for it. It's really kinda funky in reality - since every other Pontiac I have seen with a special color or special order paint do show a charge for it, seems pretty fair in most cases.

Have either of you two guys with these * - - special paint Cars ever maybe had the opportunity or checked behind where the door hinges mount to the door or mount to the cowl. Or in behind the quarter panel interior trim panel where the inner structuring is to mount the rear window regulators - to see if there is your color behind them ? I'm just shooting from an outside line on this, but wondering if there is a possibility they were sold un-painted. Have seen some F-bodies being mentioned as sold un-painted.

[Ron Landis]

I think that collectively we can shed some light on how things were done "back in the day." I'll get you in touch with Milt, as I'm sure he can enlighten you somewhat on this "program" that seems to have involved your car. I'm wondering how they handled the VIN on a car that was supplied with two engines at the point of sale? This is only one of many questions to be answered. I'll be going up to help Milt assemble his '66 soon. Hopefully, I will have seen your car by then and can pose some of these questions to him. He seemed to recall quite a bit about the program when I initially told him of the car. You two need to talk. I'll see you soon. Thanx again. Ron

[Ron Landis]

anyone want to venture a guess on why this car had a console, while void of all other options. Also, a bench seat was lighter than two buckets. Maybe a stealth factor here.

[bdk1976]

Originally Posted by jegstek

anyone want to venture a guess on why this car had a console, while void of all other options. Also, a bench seat was lighter than two buckets. Maybe a stealth factor here.

My guess would be to get the shifter on the floor - with bench (or buckets w/o console) all you could get was a column shifter with the automatic transmission.