[roundportponchos]

My Good Friend, from Escondido, had told me about this one..

Originally Posted by R 70 Judge

umm... Now I'm confused? Are you the friend of Michael that was interested in the car? Because otherwise I think you may be confusing Joe's car with the 1 of 1 Van Nuys car that was discovered shortly after. (which from what I've been told was an equally original time capsule that was also still with it's original owner.)

[R 70 Judge]

I know a great deal of history on the car and have a story regarding the sale, but it's kind of sad so I don't usually share it. After chasing the car for 15 years it was very hard to let it go, but I did the right thing because I could not give it the top tier level of restoration it deserved.

Joe, you didn't mention that the interior still had the protective plastic on the seats from when it was delivered in 1969. You have the supporting documentation to prove the car never received its final dealer prep to remove the coverings. I have a copy, but wont post it unless you give consent.

[Firebob]

Hey guys, I was reading a reprinted article in HPP that was originally written March '69 on the new RamIII T/A with auto and 3.90 rear. They said the best they could make rolling on F70-14 biased was a 14.1@ 1/4mi. Said they needed to feather the throttle a bit on launch but after that it hooked up fine. I would have thought it would have done a little better than that. You guys have real experience with these engines in fbodys. I figure they had alot better gas back then too.

Does this sound like the type of numbers that this car puts down?

Robert

[R 70 Judge]

Originally Posted by roundportponchos

My Good Friend, from Escondido, had told me about this one..

I knew our Escondido friend told you, but I'm not sure who the other guy is. Oh well

The car was purchased new in Seattle, spent a short time in Virginia in the very early 70's, and finally ended up here in San Diego. They initially wanted to purchase a 454 vette, but decided on the TA because they wanted to start a family and it had 4 seats. As the story goes he went into the Seattle Pontiac dealership and fell in love with the '69 TA on the showroom floor only to be told that he could not purchase it. According to the story I was told, the '69 TA on the showroom floor was convertible and deemed "not for sale" by the owner of the dealership. (I contacted a very knowledgeable Pontiac enthusiast regarding the story I was told and was informed that none of the 8 verts went to Seattle so the story doesn't really match up...However, I also spoke with an old Pontiac sales manager and was told that cars were "traded" between dealerships all the time to try and move stock so it could have feasibly ended up at a different dealer with no PHS record stating it was sold at another dealership.) Since they refused to sell the TA on the showroom floor he special ordered the '69 TA with the RA IV option, a 4 speed, and blue interior.

[Uncle Judge]

Originally Posted by R 70 Judge

umm... Now I'm confused? Are you the friend of Michael that was interested in the car? Because otherwise I think you may be confusing Joe's car with the 1 of 1 Van Nuys car that was discovered shortly after. (which from what I've been told was an equally original time capsule that was also still with it's original owner.)

I guess you forgot James?? You and I had spoken a few times when you had the blue 70 Judge. You had mentioned the 69 T/A to me at that time but were not sure when and if the car could be had. You said that you had been trying to get it for some time. I checked back with you once or twice and the last time that we had spoke you had just struck a deal with Joe. I guess a weekly call would have been in order? High pressure has never been my style. My fault!

[ramair2]

Couple of add'l shots....sorry about the 'other' cars captured in the pics... ;-)

although...one of them IS worthy!



PS: Back to my original question...

One of the factory markings we found (and left untouched) was a grease pencil 8458 on the radiator shroud.

Does anyone know what "8458" means or represents?

[ramair2]

Also...

James please post the 'crammed garage shot' you have. I cant seem to find it and that pic was/is priceless! :-)

[roundportponchos]

I know of a great Matador red raiv bird, sold from that Seattle dealership.... They must of had some great cars...

Originally Posted by R 70 Judge

I knew our Escondido friend told you, but I'm not sure who the other guy is. Oh well

The car was purchased new in Seattle, spent a short time in Virginia in the very early 70's, and finally ended up here in San Diego. They initially wanted to purchase a 454 vette, but decided on the TA because they wanted to start a family and it had 4 seats. As the story goes he went into the Seattle Pontiac dealership and fell in love with the '69 TA on the showroom floor only to be told that he could not purchase it. According to the story I was told, the '69 TA on the showroom floor was convertible and deemed "not for sale" by the owner of the dealership. (I contacted a very knowledgeable Pontiac enthusiast regarding the story I was told and was informed that none of the 8 verts went to Seattle so the story doesn't really match up...However, I also spoke with an old Pontiac sales manager and was told that cars were "traded" between dealerships all the time to try and move stock so it could have feasibly ended up at a different dealer with no PHS record stating it was sold at another dealership.) Since they refused to sell the TA on the showroom floor he special ordered the '69 TA with the RA IV option, a 4 speed, and blue interior.

[R 70 Judge]

Originally Posted by ramair2

Also...

James please post the 'crammed garage shot' you have. I cant seem to find it and that pic was/is priceless! :-)

Here ya go...

[ramair2]

Truly unbelievable....an original everything, un-restored '69 RA IV TA kept like that (for a decades) ?!

Pretty expensive "storage table" wouldn't ya' say ? ;-)

Thanks for re-sending the pics James!

[70ram4]

wow, if it's for sale let me know, please, been looking for one for a while

[Tellyshavilli]

Originally Posted by ramair2

Sorry about the delay. Here are two picks of my 69 RA IV TA (plus the car's invoice). I am the second owner (although PY member James, aka R 70 Judge, had the car/was TA caretaker for couple of weeks before I took delivery). He turned me on to the car about 4 years ago and knew it would someday be up for sale. That day came in early October 2005. Thanks again James for giving me the opportunity to buy it from the original owner (through you). BTW, please feel free to add in details of the car since you were "next door" to it for over a decade in S.CAL

Very brief history on the car. Prior to me, it was a 51K mile original owner, original paint RA IV M21 69 TA that had spent over 90% of its life in southern Califonia. ALL matching driveline, Protect-o-plate, past registrations, etc. I had to find a 9273 carb and original alt but as far as the tough stuff that was about it. When I got it it had its original paint and had factory markings under the hood that still remain (or were carefully reproduced). Car was fully documented then underwent a subframe-off complete restoration that took about 18 months.

Dan Jensen re-built the motor to AMA specs (10.75 CR all around- not puerstock drags 11.3 NHRA etc). Car max dyno was 438hp. About what I was expecting/hoping. The interior is immaculate and besides the carpet and headliner 100% original. Many HOURS and HOURS of cleaning detailing were logged (I think he was a smoker). In the end it was worth the effort. Car was brought down to metal. Only very minor body work was required (no panel replacement anywhere- thank you Southern California!). Biggest repair was some minor damage on driver rear lower 1/4 and the air foil. Guess he was storing a salted pork roast on the spoiler at some point during the late 1970s as it sat in his garage! (James, can you post that pic of the car CRAMMED in his 0.9 car garage? It's both funny and sad at same time!)

Anyhow, the car was and still is an insane time warp mobile. It's one of only 55 '69 RA IV TAs ever built (46 4-speed; 9 Th400). How many are restored with their matching drivetrain intact today? Can't be too many. I feel very, very, very lucky to have the two cars that I've always wanted (other being my RA II Bird). To me they are the ultimate Pontiacs. Great looking, lightweight, high compression, 4-speed, round-port First generation F-bodies. Am I biased? Of course. Do I care that I'm biased? H3ll no! :-)

PS One of the factory markings we found (and left untouched) was a grease pencil 8458 on the radiator shroud. Does anyone know what this number/code means or represents? The TBP on both sides of the firewall were also there when I bought the car. The letters were reproduced in the same font/size, color and locations.

My Ra IV matador red 4 speed bird is also from Bud Meadows Pontiac as confirming what roundport had previously posted . It is also all original drivetrain and original paint . Bud Meadows knew how to order pontiacs as I have seen other rare pontiacs come out of that dealership

[ramair2]

I'll try one more time :-)

Do you know what the grease pencil "8458" on my fan shroud stands for ?

[BLKBRD]

I've seen cars that were repossessed with grease pencil numbers on the cowl or core support. Any chance a previous owner had problems making payments?

[ramair2]

Blkbrd:

When you typed that I hope you at least cracked a smile? I bet your are one hell of a poker player. ;-)

[Tellyshavilli]

Originally Posted by ramair2

I'll try one more time :-)

Do you know what the grease pencil "8458" on my fan shroud stands for ?

No idea

[moegoat]

My Friend has a RAIV 69 T/A man trans in the Chicago area, it needs some cosmetics & misc parts but does have the orig engine. He also has a auto T/A conv't & RAIII T/A 4 spd coupe, among other tasty items. I will post more details in a few weeks. I have tried to post a image but it dosen't want to upload what am I doing wrong?

[trishieldchief]

I own a 69 RAIV 4 speed GTO Judge that I am guessing weighs in around 3900 lbs.
I have often thought a 69 Firebird hardtop RAIV 4 speed weighing in a couple hundred pounds less would trully represent the fastest most leathal Pontiac a person could buy in 1969!
A car like that would clearly be almost untouchable on the street.

[69 T/A]

I have no idea about the 8458 but I remember a thread about those seat covers. My father worked for GM and bought a '68 Impala that had those exact covers on them. It didn't get the dealer prep either. Please tell me you kept those covers on after the restoration! If not, could you PM me?
Thanks,
John

[Uncle Judge]

Originally Posted by moegoat

My Friend has a RAIV 69 T/A man trans in the Chicago area, it needs some cosmetics & misc parts but does have the orig engine. He also has a auto T/A conv't & RAIII T/A 4 spd coupe, among other tasty items. I will post more details in a few weeks. I have tried to post a image but it dosen't want to upload what am I doing wrong?

Welcome to the sight Moe. I know that you have seen some good original stuff in your travels! And you do not have to travel very far.