[lust4speed]

The opening going to the driver's side of the engine needs to remain fully open. Here's a picture with a few comments.

[ronaldrust]

Thank you for the picture. When you look at the picture, the hole on the left, what should be the gap between the two plates? after I bent the plate to fit the vanes, the gap is very small between the two plates. Also I have some deteriation around the hole of the plate. How can I repair this?

Ron

[ronaldrust]

Hi Mick,
thanks for the picture. I have pounded the plate to touch the vanes. The gasket should give me clearance.
I am concerned about the clearance between the plates. Here is what I am seeing. The two plates will sit into the timing cover but do not come up to the flange. It is maybe a 16th lower into the cover. That means when I put the pump together with the gasket I should get good clearance. As the pump runs the vane side of the pump will create pressure and keep the larger plate in place against the timing cover. Also the pressure should be greatest between the plates as water flows to the opening thus pushing the smaller plate back against the vane housing or pump housing. If this is at least 16th of an inch or maybe more based on the addition of the gasket, the gap between the plates should be an additional 16th+ vs what I see on the bench when they are resting on each other.
Am I seeing this correctly?

Ron

[roadrage david]

Originally Posted by azbirds

Stock cast impeller, Rodney Red radiator,68 Bird, 400 at .030. Coolant holes modified in the block and heads. Daily driven in phoenix= 170 degree temps.

I sec that 68 bird, Rodney red radiator(elec fan set up), stock cast pump , 461 alu haeds 530 hp . 15% under drive pullys.
racing ore driving on the streets ore highway 160/ to 190.
when racing and back in trafic jam with halve radiator due to leak in the summer 210/220!!!.....

[Tom McQueen]

Evans has the best cast impellar. Set the plate clearance nice and tight like you would on any pump. Heres a pic. Maybe someone could post a similar pic of a factory impellar.

[ronaldrust]

Hi Tom,

Can you send the web link to this pump. Cannot find it to buy.

Ron

[Tom McQueen]

Originally Posted by ronaldrust

Hi Tom,

Can you send the web link to this pump. Cannot find it to buy.

Ron

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
do a search for evans water pump.

Evans home page.

http://www.evanscooling.com/

one place to order from.

http://www.nitemareperformance.150m.com/wpump.html

[rolling money pits]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

My preference in water pump design, from what I have seen in the last few years, is the largest diameter, most vane surface, pump. The cast impeller pumps seem to fit these requirements altho some aftermarket versions have the impeller diameter cut down for reasons unknown.

Unquestionably, too much clearance will render any design ineffective. The biggest bang for the buck is to minimize the clearance. Will it fix any and all cooling issues? probably not, but too much clearance will certainly make cooling issues worse.

George

i tend to agree with the above, if that's what george is in fact saying.

i dont think it matters what the impeller is made of, steel, cast iron, or paper mache.....

it has to do with the surface area of said impeller.

the evans pump, obviously, has the most surface area of any pontiac water pump i've ever laid eyes on. setting the divider plate clearance, like mentioned above, is critical.

i do wonder though, what effect a "large" cast impeller has on pump life, specifically bearing life? it would be nice if someone could design a steel impeller with the same sort of surface area the evans one has, or, a cast aluminum version, to cut down on the weight and bearing stress.

[lust4speed]

The Evans pump looks like a great piece of engineering. I wouldn't worry about the mass of the impeller since the main influence on bearing life is the 19-1/2" fan hanging off the other end.

ronaldrust, don't fully understand your question so I'll just state a few things. The plates should fit inside the timing cover and the outside plate sits flush with the gasket surface and neither will have any play to go deeper inside the cover. They will effectively be locked in place when the pump housing is bolted to the timing cover. On the driver's side there should be an open channel at least 1/4" deep between the plates with the plates touching flush on both sides of the channel. I'll try and locate a spare set of plates today and get a photo of them sitting together.

[1967Tempest]

Yeah, that Evans pump is the boss!!! Part number? I don't need one now, but it would be nice to have in the future. That looks like it can pull some water@!!!!! Also looks like the largest impeller out there!!!

Dave

[ronaldrust]

You said:

"The plates should fit inside the timing cover and the outside plate sits flush with the gasket surface and neither will have any play to go deeper inside the cover. They will effectively be locked in place when the pump housing "
When I put my plates in the cover the top is not fluch with the gasket surface but about 1/16 inch below. This makes me wonder if the plate will open with pressure somewhat and make the gap where water passes to the ports larger.

Ron

[ronaldrust]

Hi Mick or anyone else that might have an answer.

I have heard that another help for cooling is to modify the heads so each has a heater connection. Use a "Y" pipe and take them through the heater or just back to the inlet to the pump.

Anyone have info on this. Is it beneficial?

Ron

[1967Tempest]

Originally Posted by ronaldrust

Hi Mick or anyone else that might have an answer.

I have heard that another help for cooling is to modify the heads so each has a heater connection. Use a "Y" pipe and take them through the heater or just back to the inlet to the pump.

Anyone have info on this. Is it beneficial?

Ron

I would not use this many clamps, but it helped a little. I used WAY too many clamps!!! I will say that the head tamps are even. Before the driverside head was hotter.

Dave

[lust4speed]

If you look up the coolant path taken through the Pontiac V8, it shows that the flow from the radiator enters both the right and left banks of the block (hopefully equally). After entering the block, some coolant is allowed up into the head through the feed holes closest to the front, while most of the coolant travels on back through the block and up the remainder of the holes into the head. All of this coolant must travel the length of the head to the front crossover and back into the radiator to be cooled. Any coolant that doesn't make it back into the crossover will not enter the radiator on that pass.

So a couple of points. The block doesn't get near as hot as the heads, so most of the necessary heat extraction will be in the heads. Even the coolant that makes it to the rear of the block is still relatively cool compared to the head temperature. Any coolant that is taken off the rear of the heads to the heater core will return to the water pump and enter the block without passing through the radiator. This works great on cold mornings because it circulates coolant through the engine and through the heater core for quicker warm up of the passenger compartment while the thermostat is still closed.

On a hot day, the heater door remains closed and basically all heated coolant returns to the water pump to be sent right back through the engine. The volume of flow through the heater hoses equals the volume of coolant not cooled through the radiator on that pass. In other words, if your water pump flows 30 GPM and 2 GPM doesn't go through the radiator, then your cooling system has lost 2/30ths or about 7% of its capacity to cool. So when the cooling system is maxed out on a hot day, this could mean that instead of 200° the system might run 7% warmer or 214°. I run shutoff valves in my heater hoses not only to keep heat out of the passenger compartment, but also to insure every drop of coolant has to pass through the radiator in the summer.

I'm also not a fan of bypass hoses from the rear of the head to the cross over either. The coolant pulled off the rear of the heads still could extract more heat if left to do its job as Pontiac intended. While the thermostat won't show it (or might even read a degree or two less), the head will be running hotter with the bypass hoses in place.

[1967Tempest]

Lust:
Do you have a picture of the bypass valves? That is a good idea. Because even when the heat is "OFF" a lot of HOT air still creeps through the heater and into the cabin. 10* is a big difference when it is 90* outside!!

Dave

[bankbook]

I have had most water pumps out there and BY FAR the best flowing, keep your engine cool pump is the one made by Evans. It has an air bleed in the top as well. My 535 has yet to run hot. It has stayed at 180 until I beat it then up to 200-205 in traffic.
I have had a Mezziere electric that would not do that in daily driving because it would not regulate the flow during traffic with different speeds. Will use that at the track this summer, but all when done and back on the street it will be the Evans pump. It is made out of steel.

[1967Tempest]

Originally Posted by bankbook

I have had most water pumps out there and BY FAR the best flowing, keep your engine cool pump is the one made by Evans. It has an air bleed in the top as well. My 535 has yet to run hot. It has stayed at 180 until I beat it then up to 200-205 in traffic.
I have had a Mezziere electric that would not do that in daily driving because it would not regulate the flow during traffic with different speeds. Will use that at the track this summer, but all when done and back on the street it will be the Evans pump. It is made out of steel.

Yes, but where did you get it and the part number?
Dave

[bankbook]

Posts 25-27 in this thread or:

http://www.nitemareperformance.150m.com/wpump.html

[1967Tempest]

brilliant!!!

thanks!!!

[lust4speed]

Originally Posted by 1967Tempest

Lust:
Do you have a picture of the bypass valves? That is a good idea. Because even when the heat is "OFF" a lot of HOT air still creeps through the heater and into the cabin. 10* is a big difference when it is 90* outside!!
Dave

Here's a pic of the shutoff valve in the top 5/8" hose, the other hose is 3/4" and requires a 3/4" valve. I just had my local auto parts store rummage through their catalogs until we found a suitable candidate. The valve in the picture is over 10 years old and hasn't given any problems at all. Many cars came stock with shutoff valves that used a cable to turn them on and off. Probably be pretty cheap at Pick-A-Part.