[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by old66tiger

I have a little walbro 255 lph pump feeding my Fuel Injection at 43 psi and this system flat out works.

Not sure if you could use a pump like this for carb application as the delta in pressure might be too much to get the necessary flow to the carb in the end.

Yes,that can easily be done.

Aeromotive makes a couple of return style regulators that can easily step that sorta pressure down to carb pressures.

IIRC those are the A1000 "carb" regulators.
(no.s 13204 ~ 2 port/13224 ~ 4 port)

Those Aeromotive A1000 pumps are basically an EFI pump on steroids.

The A1000 pumps flow nearly twice what that Walbro pump flows.

IIRC the A1000 pump puts out like 700 lb/hr @ 45 psi,so that's like 116 gph w/gas weighing roughly 6 lbs/gal,so convert that 116 gph to lph and it's like 440 lph for the A1000 pumps.

255 lph = like 67 gph.

So yeah the A1000 "carb" return regs would manage that Walbro pump no problemo.

FWIW

Bret P.

[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by Tripower455

In the interest of brevity, I neglected to mention in my last post that while I was troubleshooting the noise, I replaced the fram setup with a 40 micron (I think it's a Mallory, but might be an Aeroquip, Russell or one of the AN manufacturers... it was around $100) pre filter, with no change. I even tried running it without a filter at all, to see if that was the issue. No difference. Still wailed like a banshee.

The 140s should not need -10AN anywhere and they were ridiculously loud.

I never had a delivery issue with any of them, well, until they failed!

I appreciate the advice, but I went through all of this years ago, and nothing worked.

I am sure the problem was in the one thing I might've overlooked over the 3 years I messed with it. Whatever it was, will remain a mystery, because I am never going back to electrics on my street car. I've spent far too much of my life bathing in 93 octane already!

That's fine,really I'm not trying to change anyones mind here,especially not yours.

The advice/suggestion/comments I've made in this thread are'nt really directed towards you anyways,they've mostly been intended for koz5614 to ponder as he mulls over his options and makes his decision.

It seems you RobbMc fans are the ones that have pretty much single-handedly made this a for/against electric pump thread.

Me,I could care less,to me this is all just a casual discussion,so I let it go where ever it goes,no sweat off my back really.

But basically it kinda boils down to you suggesting that guys like Cliff & Skip are full of it and your way is the only worthwhile way to even consider going.

And like I said,I've also known a few other guys with the same experiences those guys have had.

So I know for a fact that both ways can work if everything is "happy" & working as it should...

Anyhow out of curiosity I went ahead and read thru some of your past posts on your fuel system problems,and in a couple posts even you pointed out that you chose the Comp 250 pump because you had a couple of friends with them and you stated theirs were "almost completely silent",which is something that I've also pointed out in this thread as well.

So that clearly seems to suggest that something odd was amiss with your set-up.

But I totally agree that's all "water under the bridge" for you now...

Like I said some guys just throw things together and dont have problem one.

Other guys build stuff to the N'th degree and they get nothing but problems.

No rhyme nor reason to it.

I'm just pointing out that sorta thing can often happen regardless of what type of pump is used.

Plenty of guys have done all sorts of crazy stuff trying to get the various mechanical pumps to work well for them,and plenty of them have nothing but headaches to show for those efforts,which is the exact flip side of your experience w/electric pumps.

Does either side really have any more merit than the other side has???

I mean it's obvious that some of the folks on either side of that deal feel very strongly about how they came to their POV,but really neither side can be 100% right,otherwise there would be no "other" side,everyone would all be on the same side of this topic.

Like I said here repeatedly,I dont have a preference one way or the other.

I'm just pointing out that it's not always gonna be an easy process when a fella chooses to "re-engineer" something like his fuel system.

But there is absolutely more than one way to get the job done with satisfactory results.

The "catch 22" to that is there are just as many ways to drive yourself mad as well.

FWIW

Bret P.

[Cliff R]

This is another topic related to this hobby where we see widely varying results from various combinations of components.

I can tell everyone here for certain, a Carter HP mechanical pump fed by a Comp 110 pump with a stock pick-up location would NOT keep up with my old iron headed 455 engine making 455.4hp.

The Comp 140 pump fed by a sumped tank, high flow OMC spin on filter, 8AN lines/fittings everyplace, and $20 Holley regulator works FLAWLESSLY.

As far as noise is concerned, it was extremely loud before I added a return line. My return line is nothing more than a 3/8" brass "T" screwed into the bottom of the regulator, with the 8AN hose coming straight in the bottom. I bushed the 90 degree port down to 1/4"NPT, and used a 90 degree inverted flare fitting to the stock steel return line (A/C car).

The makeshift set-up easily keeps up with the current engines. I have a shut off in the return, to "dead-head" the set-up if needed, but have never had to use it. I tested it a few times on back to back runs, and it makes no difference whether it's open or closed, car runs the same ET and MPH.

It does get pretty noisey if the return is left close for any length of time, so I always leave it open. Since adding the return, pump life has been excellent. I have two pumps that can be swapped back and forth, and I keep a spare brush kit on the shelf for them so I'm never without a spare pump.

It only takes a couple of minutes to install brushes in one of these pumps. I've read of folks having considerable problems with the Mallory pumps, and other threads where they work fine for many years. There doesn't seem to be any sort of consistancy to it. All I can say is that my set-up works, and is dead solid reliable as well.....Cliff

[Tripower455]

Originally Posted by screamingchief

That's fine,really I'm not trying to change anyones mind here,especially not yours.

The advice/suggestion/comments I've made in this thread are'nt really directed towards you anyways,they've mostly been intended for koz5614 to ponder as he mulls over his options and makes his decision.

It seems you RobbMc fans are the ones that have pretty much single-handedly made this a for/against electric pump thread.

Me,I could care less,to me this is all just a casual discussion,so I let it go where ever it goes,no sweat off my back really.

But basically it kinda boils down to you suggesting that guys like Cliff & Skip are full of it and your way is the only worthwhile way to even consider going.

And like I said,I've also known a few other guys with the same experiences those guys have had.

So I know for a fact that both ways can work if everything is "happy" & working as it should...

Anyhow out of curiosity I went ahead and read thru some of your past posts on your fuel system problems,and in a couple posts even you pointed out that you chose the Comp 250 pump because you had a couple of friends with them and you stated theirs were "almost completely silent",which is something that I've also pointed out in this thread as well.

So that clearly seems to suggest that something odd was amiss with your set-up.

But I totally agree that's all "water under the bridge" for you now...

Like I said some guys just throw things together and dont have problem one.

Other guys build stuff to the N'th degree and they get nothing but problems.

No rhyme nor reason to it.

I'm just pointing out that sorta thing can often happen regardless of what type of pump is used.

Plenty of guys have done all sorts of crazy stuff trying to get the various mechanical pumps to work well for them,and plenty of them have nothing but headaches to show for those efforts,which is the exact flip side of your experience w/electric pumps.

Does either side really have any more merit than the other side has???

I mean it's obvious that some of the folks on either side of that deal feel very strongly about how they came to their POV,but really neither side can be 100% right,otherwise there would be no "other" side,everyone would all be on the same side of this topic.

Like I said here repeatedly,I dont have a preference one way or the other.

I'm just pointing out that it's not always gonna be an easy process when a fella chooses to "re-engineer" something like his fuel system.

But there is absolutely more than one way to get the job done with satisfactory results.

The "catch 22" to that is there are just as many ways to drive yourself mad as well.

FWIW

Bret P.

Bret, it's all good. We are 100% in agreement on most of these points. These cars are all different. Even seemingly identical setups will run and perform differently.

As I said, I am not a RobbMC fanboy, just that his pump solved every problem (reliability and noise) I was having with my very expensive fuel system with zero downside, even at WOT. I haven't had to worry about fuel delivery related issues since I put it in the car.

As you've read, I tried everything suggested here and elsewhere, re-engineered the setup at least 3 times (including relocating the pump, filter, fabricating brackets etc.) bought lord knows how many AN fittings, tools etc. 3 pumps, and nothing made one iota of a difference re: noise. When the second 140 went south, I should've just dumped the setup there, but as you read in one of my old posts, a friend was running a 250 in his TA, and it was nearly silent, so I tried that one. Our setups were nearly identical BTW. The pump feed is 2' of -8AN braided coming off the sump through the Mallory filter. Short of mounting the pump directly to the sump, I can't see how I could make the inlet side of the pump work less and still be able to drive the car.

Considering the time, money and effort I expended, I REALLY wanted the electric system to work.

I also am not calling anyone a liar or doubting anyone's experiences, the least of all yours and Cliffs. The original poster was asking for electric pump recommendations. I added mine. I was just trying to point out my experiences in this area. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and if I can save others the grief that I've dealt with, all the better.

Oh, and thanks for all the info you've provided on this and other subjects! Even though I've been messing with Pontiacs for almost 30 years, you guys have forgotten more about this stuff today than I've ever known, and I've learned a lot from the folks on this forum.

[Skip Fix]

I thought about doing what RobbMc did years ago with a mechanical-adding a good 6 valve bottom on a Holley or Carter top arm when I started my fuel issue solutions years ago. Had a race mechanical on a 79 Camaro 383 380 HP that worked flawlessly with all stock lines and pickup.

My personal car- stock 180 HP 400 freshened up and with a 228/228@ 0.050 cam otherwise stock rebuild ran out of gas at top of second. Tried the Carter and Holley mechanical pumps available(this is 85ish) no go until I added an AC delco little electric pusher. Next motor 455 RAIV head around 400hp-fuel issues again. Added Mallory 140(from Super Shops ) with the mechanical OK until we uncorked the headers- fuel again. Added -8 from pump to carb ,dropped the mechanical problem solved, supplying 550+ HP based on mph/wt. with the factory pickup less sock.

[screamingchief]

Originally Posted by Tripower455

I should've just dumped the setup there, but as you read in one of my old posts, a friend was running a 250 in his TA, and it was nearly silent, so I tried that one. Our setups were nearly identical BTW.

Well,they're not necessarily identical,as those two cars vent the tank completely differently than one another,so that's at least one major difference right there.

The '66 IIRC typically uses a simple basic "metered orifice" vent in the fuel cap.

The second gen birds (except the '70 IIRC) typically have a much more effective venting set-up including the vent/fuel seperation standpipes and charcoal cans and such.

Many of the '71-'72 up cars use the EVAP set-ups like that.

Like Darby said a few posts back,venting can become quite problematic as well.

Have seen the big gnarly 400 gph electric pumps actually collapse fuel tanks/cells if they're not adequately vented,those fuel systems typically use a ROVV and 8an for the vents.

And yeah,inadequte venting can indeed cause pump cavitation and pump noise as well.

That issue can also affect both electric and mechanical pumps,but I concede it's far more likely to affect an electric pump,as the electric pump is generally located much closer to the tank itself,and there is less "give" in the lines as the tank pressure is dropping lower & lower,as the lines themselves are much shorter.

Also the basic tank shapes are quite different as well,so if both tanks were "sumped" it's likely each would have somewhat different traits when it comes to supplying fuel to that sump area and such,which again could pose problems.

Anyhow,I'm glad your happy with the car now though,that's what really matters.

The thing I've been getting at here is some guys are gonna stick with what they got regardless what you or I think about such,so I feel they need to know what sorta things might help them make the system perform as well as it possibly can.



Bret P.

[Tripower455]

Originally Posted by screamingchief

Well,they're not necessarily identical,as those two cars vent the tank completely differently than one another,so that's at least one major difference right there.

The '66 IIRC typically uses a simple basic "metered orifice" vent in the fuel cap.

The second gen birds (except the '70 IIRC) typically have a much more effective venting set-up including the vent/fuel seperation standpipes and charcoal cans and such.

Many of the '71-'72 up cars use the EVAP set-ups like that.

Like Darby said a few posts back,venting can become quite problematic as well.

Have seen the big gnarly 400 gph electric pumps actually collapse fuel tanks/cells if they're not adequately vented,those fuel systems typically use a ROVV and 8an for the vents.

And yeah,inadequte venting can indeed cause pump cavitation and pump noise as well.

That issue can also affect both electric and mechanical pumps,but I concede it's far more likely to affect an electric pump,as the electric pump is generally located much closer to the tank itself,and there is less "give" in the lines as the tank pressure is dropping lower & lower,as the lines themselves are much shorter.

Also the basic tank shapes are quite different as well,so if both tanks were "sumped" it's likely each would have somewhat different traits when it comes to supplying fuel to that sump area and such,which again could pose problems.

Anyhow,I'm glad your happy with the car now though,that's what really matters.

The thing I've been getting at here is some guys are gonna stick with what they got regardless what you or I think about such,so I feel they need to know what sorta things might help them make the system perform as well as it possibly can.



Bret P.

FWIW, the '66 has a vent in the filler neck, that is basically an upside down "U" shaped piece of tubing.

In any case, venting was not my issue, since it made the same noise with the gas cap removed.

[koz5614]

Thanks for all the replies/input. I never knew there was so much involved with plumbing a fuel system. I think I'm going to go with either the Holley HP125 or the the Mallory 140. In either case, I will run a return line. Maybe I'll keep the old "Blue" pump wired in as an emergency pump. Thanks again.

[BLANK1]

I've been using the Aeromotive High Output Billet red fuel pump(#11203) for over 8 years now with a dead head regulator. Street/strip driven and has been as quick as 11.28 @ 118 mph. They are pretty good pumps. A little cheaper than a Mallory pump too. Just another suggestion. www.speedwaymotors.com has them for $189.99.