[64woodwheel]

Pontiac plant circa 1964. Instrument panel line on floor two. Full size dash bezels can be seen leaning on rail. A-body instrument panel bezels are stacked in the background, They were painted upper dash color after the gauges were attached. Unfortunately no smoking gun wood inserts visible.


This is the instrument panel paint booth hanging over the rail dock area.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by 64woodwheel

Unfortunately no smoking gun wood inserts visible.

Nonetheless - very clear and beautiful pics. Thanks for posting those.

The inside of GM assembly plants still look very much like that, even today.

(...only "in color" rather than b&w).

K

[Tom Vaught]

John, again not saying that a Production Worker at KC installed my Woodgrain dash insert, but at one point I removed the Woodgrain dash insert and found a normal GTO swirl dash insert underneath the wood. BOTH were glued with the same yellow weatherstrip cement in the same sloppy pattern, LOL!

I will go by what Mr Sherman, who owned the Wanger's GTO for many years and had a wealth of knowledge on the 64 cars. He said that the Factory installed some of the dashes (somewhere) for a "test market" so I am going with that deal.

Tom Vaught

Too many original owners (or relatives) are posting up about someone in the family having a 64 GTO with a woodgrain dash for it to be a "hey, I want to install a wood dash like the 65 GTOs have on my 64". A 64 GTO owner named Tom Young was extremely serious about every detail of his 64 GTO (from the time it was delivered at my Uncle's dealership) and wanted nothing touched.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

A 64 GTO owner named Tom Young was extremely serious about every detail of his 64 GTO (from the time it was delivered at my Uncle's dealership) and wanted nothing touched.

TomV -

This particular Tom Young - was he a GM employee and is he still working?

We have a Tom Young at Powertrain, who was one of the developers of the TBI system ('87 C/K/R/V trucks, specifically).

K

[Keith Seymore]

My apologies to Tenney for posting these without asking first, but here's some shots of the '64 Car & Driver GTO (the "red car") in action:





K

[John V.]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Too many original owners (or relatives) are posting up about someone in the family having a 64 GTO with a woodgrain dash for it to be a "hey, I want to install a wood dash like the 65 GTOs have on my 64".

Tom, that's why I wrote, "Still, the anecdotal evidence keeps raising the question."

Keith, can't remember if the Wood Insert on Tenney's car has been discussed before.

A B&W pic of the car with Milt Schornack at the wheel from about 20 years ago shows the Wood Insert then.

But given the pretty early production of that car, I'm guessing the Wood Insert was surely added much after production. With the pretty well documented owner history, I'd think it could be established just when the Wood Insert first appeared in it?

Pix in the C&D article were primarily of the Blue car and pretty sure that is true of the one interior shot showing the swirled aluminum insert.

Did notice in the C&D pic from under the hood, looks like the hood pad had been removed, but that's the topic of another thread, LOL.

[Tenney]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

My apologies to Tenney for posting these without asking first, but here's some shots of the '64 Car & Driver GTO (the "red car") in action:





K

Not a prob., Keith!

Jim told me he installed the wood dash and steering wheel hub on the '64.

Also was told that, as an insulation delete order, the red car didn't receive a hood pad.

[John V.]

Didn't think about the insulation delete, that makes sense. Wonder if the Blue car was also insulation delete or if there would be any way to tell which car was used for that particular shot?

That old ad is pretty cool. Where'd you find that? Wonder if that was the vendor Pontiac used for their Wood Inserts?

[Tom Vaught]

If that "Tiger Stripe" pattern in the dash wood was the one that Wangers/ "Dash of Wood" sold then I can absolutely say that my dash was NOT a "Dash of Wood" dash.

My wood dash was very close to Chipless Dad's Dash color and texture (and the thin metal over the 2nd Pod).

Tom Vaught

[John V.]

Tom, I noticed the pronounced "tiger stripe" grain also, but I kinda figured that was for illustration only so that it would "show up" in the black & white ad. Although it looks "photographic", it might actually be pencil drawn, I can tell you when my dad was in design, he had stuff in his portfolio that looked like photographs but were hand drawn. I can tell you I inherited absolutely none of his artistic skills.

Tom, not sure if you know this, but I think the "gap" above the no. 2 pod is very thin on all '64s, definitely is on mine, even with the swirled aluminum insert, there is just enough room for the perimeter "rib" edge of the insert to fit and that is it. I assume the no. 3 pod is identical in size (or intended to be) but slightly bigger gap above it. I didn't look if I could tell any difference in gap below the pod. But looks like that small gap is a consequence of the mold. Wonder if the '65 mold was "corrected" or not?

[Tenney]

The "Dash of Wood" ad is in the August '64 issue of Car Craft, John. Jim sold those on Woodward for a bit (mentioned the hub piece was not too popular).

Think the under-hood shot is the red car due to p/s.

[Chipless]

Originally Posted by 1964 gto conv.

What plant was your car assembeld at ? My car had the wood grain insert on dash but not on the gauges under dash.

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

If you open the door to your Dad's GTO and you read the first few numbers and letters of the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) IF the car was built in Kansas City the VIN number should be something like this 824M 1XXXX.

Mine is 824P2_____, which looks like Pontiac, Michigan to me. Delivery was taken in Springfield, Ohio at Risher Pontiac. I also found the original sales receipt dated July 7, 1964, and confirmed the sale price of $3,221.69 including sales tax and title.

Have not been able to locate the window sticker yet, but the search continues…

[Tom Vaught]

Well A Pontiac Built Car so IF you can find the Info that would say that the "Test Market" was tried at more than one plant. Your car was built 3 months after my car so who knows.

Tom Vaught

[Chipless]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Too many original owners (or relatives) are posting up about someone in the family having a 64 GTO with a woodgrain dash for it to be a "hey, I want to install a wood dash like the 65 GTOs have on my 64".

I received the PHS stuff for my Dad's '64 GTO, and there was no mention of a woodgrain dash insert. As you all have tried to tell me, this item wasn't even listed as a possible option. I guess I should have done a little more research before posting.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Chipless

I received the PHS stuff for my Dad's '64 GTO, and there was no mention of a woodgrain dash insert. As you all have tried to tell me, this item wasn't even listed as a possible option. I guess I should have done a little more research before posting.

No reason to be embarrassed; we're just ('64/'65 A body) family here....



Anything else of interest in the PHS documentation? Did you say you have the original window sticker? I'm sure several of us would love to see a comparison between the PHS info and the window sticker verbiage, if you are comfortable sharing.

K

[Chipless]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Anything else of interest in the PHS documentation? Did you say you have the original window sticker? I'm sure several of us would love to see a comparison between the PHS info and the window sticker verbiage, if you are comfortable sharing.

Everything else in the PHS matched the car perfectly. I don't have the window sticker yet, but I will let everyone know once I locate it...

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught
Too many original owners (or relatives) are posting up about someone in the family having a 64 GTO with a woodgrain dash for it to be a "hey, I want to install a wood dash like the 65 GTOs have on my 64".

Originally Posted by Chipless

I received the PHS stuff for my Dad's '64 GTO, and there was no mention of a woodgrain dash insert. As you all have tried to tell me, this item wasn't even listed as a possible option. I guess I should have done a little more research before posting.

I think that you misunderstood my post above.

Some years ago I posted that I had a Woodgrain dash insert over the top of regular swirl dash on my 64 GTO "Zone Car". I received the car through my uncle (a Pontiac Dealer) and the car was originally ordered for the St Louis Zone under 12-992 code.

I was told that the Woodgrain dash deal was part of a test market deal by Bill Sherman (who owned the Wangers GTO for many years, before his passing).

Then we have another board member who posts that he too has a woodgrain dash 64 GTO, and then another guy, and another guy, and then you post about your dad's car with the woodgrain dash.

So my quote "Too many original owners (or relatives) are posting up about someone in the family having a 64 GTO with a woodgrain dash" was meant to say, I think that there actually might have been a test market done where some wood dashes were installed. Be it a marketing deal for an advertising firm for GM or some other program, we are seeing more and more of the woodgrain dash 64 GTOs posted on the forum.

No need "to do more research before you post", just tell us about your car and the woodgrain dash as you find more info from your dad's stuff.

Tom Vaught

[AZgoatguy]

Hi guys... I just now read this interesting Thread (old Threads never die) and thought I should share my car's info with you. I have a '64 GTO convertible (1st week December - Fremont) that I bought in December 1968 and the car's dash panel had a wood grain insert. Underneath was just the ribbed face of the panel, no engine-turned insert. I seem to recall (???) there was also a corresponding wood grain insert for the heater/vent controls. After a few years, and seeing other '64 and '65 GTO's I had the idea that the original owner must have replaced the engine-turned insert with that of a '65 GTO, so I got a correct '64 insert from a wrecked car and put it in my car.

What got me to this Thread was the PHS and Window Sticker which just arrived today - COOL! I was investigating what may be an error on the Window Sticker, in that it shows "PAD-INSTRUMENT PNL 424"... and my car does not have a padded dash... and the Car Order Form has nothing resembling padded dash. However, what does appear on the COF relating to the dash is "B10 INSERT PANEL." I believe this code is the Fremont Plant's designation for the engine-turned insert panel on the GTO optioned cars and, it does not appear on the 1964 options list. If I'm right about this, it could be someone at PHS tried to do something with this code on the COF and as close as they could get on the options list was the padded dash...!? I'd appreciate anyone's input on this - Thanks.

[John V.]

The PHS Repro Window Stickers are not formatted correctly for Fremont cars so no matter what, it won't be a very faithful reproduction of the original.

The only format PHS has is for the Pontiac Plant cars.

If I understand you correctly, your Fremont Manifest does NOT list the B70 Instrument Panel Pad.

If that is the case, I cannot explain why PHS listed the Pad on the repro Window Sticker.

Maybe somebody at PHS misread the B10 as B70?

In any event, it sounds like it is simply a mistake and they owe you a corrected (albeit not very faithful) copy of the repro Window Sticker that they sold you.

The B10 Insert Panel is on the Manifest for ALL '64 GTOs built at Fremont.

It is not listed on the original '64 GTO Fremont Window Sticker in any way shape or form.

It COULD have been listed as part of the GTO package option along with the GTO specific items that WERE listed for the W62 package. But it simply wasn't identified on original W.S's but it WAS a GTO specific item.

The PHS record you got is not correctly called a "Car Order Form". It is a Production Record. I believe one copy of the multi-part form was shipped with the car as the car shipping record. The record retained by Pontiac for Dealer Invoicing purposes was called the Production Record.

The most likely explanation for why your car got the woodgrain inserts is exactly as you surmised. In all likelihood, especially at the time your GTO was built, the swirled aluminum insert was used.

[AZgoatguy]

Hi John, I appreciate your response and the time you took to do it.
You're correct in that the my Fremont manifest does not include the B70 Instrument Panel Pad. So, yes, I believe someone at PHS goofed. And believing that, earlier today I sent off (fax) the appropriate letter and attachments to PHS pointing out the discrepancy.

Too bad about the PHS repo Fremont Window Sticker not being formatted correctly... kind of a shame... but, what can you do? In this case I guess close is as good as it gets. Also, sometime back in the 1970's I found the Build Sheet behind the rear upper seat back cushion and it was in good shape, so am lucky to have that for the car. And to confirm, there is no 'x' under 'PADDED I.P..' And interesting is the content of the Special Instructions block at the bottom of the sheet; it reads:
A49 SEAT BELTS INSERT PANEL DECK EMBLEMS HD FRAME GTO OPTION
Thanks again John.
Gary in Tucson