[MPKind]

Originally Posted by Rapdron

Hey Matt
I have 2 more AC Delco D1829 senders I can mail out to you.
Let me know if you want them.
Why do they rattle when you shake them?
Ron

Yes, I do want them for conversion. Do they rattle a little? It's the part that floats between the lower pressurized portion and the upper electrical portion. I'm not sure why it has to rattle, but it really helps to ID the correct part without ripping it open.

[65 Cat 2+2]

8LUG - I stand corrected. The '64's, being the first year, had more differences than I realize.
Just like the GTO's, we need to celebrate the 50th Anniversary of the 2+2 next year - or starting now, if you go by model intro.

[Ragtop Man]

Sounds like a real deal 2+2 that got some identification swapped for other purposes.

FWIW, a Ventura option Catalina would have everything but the gills and badges of a 2+2, including the dash "Pontiac" in the lucite, and the same seat pattern. A/C was definitely a factory option, a mandatory in Texas.

Keep looking for the hidden VIN and see what pops out. The missing trim tag is a smoking gun, as would an ID plate that was not retained with proper rivets, look very very closely at those.

A real 2+2 with air will have 3.08's maybe you can crawl under there and get a good look at the axle id. Don't recall the code for the trans, but there is a unique code for that as well. Base 421 should be a YH- code, but, that would be the easist thing to change out.

[chiefpontiac66]

As I recall, the auto trans code for my 66 2+2 was PC, and it was located on a tag on the side of the trans.

[Rapdron]

No luck locating the factory build sheet.
Took out the back seat, door panels and dropped the fuel tank.
Nothing. I'm guessing the previous owner might have found and removed it for whatever reason.
My only hope is if someone could tell me exactly where on the frame the VIN# is located.
The removal of the interior panel allowed me to look at the "Gills" on the quarter panels
They are completely original, and the car was definitely Candelite Cream from the factory.
The mystery continues unless I can find that elusive frame stamped VIN#

[MPKind]

Ron,
I recall seeing some numbers stamped on the frame of my 2D Sedan, but I never bothered to cross check them with anything. I found the numbers stamped on the rearmost cross brace. Easy to see if the bumper is removed. Maybe I should go check my car to see if there are partial VIN's on the frame.

[MPKind]

Update: I looked at the back of the frame and the markings have nothing to do with a VIN. It's just a manufacturer and a part number. In this case, my frame was made by Parrish and has a 977XXXX part number below it. If there is a partial VIN on '65 frames, I don't know where that would be located...my thoughts are that frame VINs don't exist. You could still check the frame part number. I can verify the application.

I would look for other indicators specific to 2+2's on the car. You've already documented some of the more obvious ones like the rear quarter gills. For example, does it have a 4 core radiator. If it's missing, check the upper rad support. It should have a pair of the longer insulators, not one long and one short. Same is true for the lower rad insulators, they should match. It may even have the fan shroud brackets. Of course these parts aren't 2+2 ONLY, but these parts were standard on 2+2's.

What rear end does it have? I think 2+2's all came with 3.42 saf-t-track standard. They also used different coil springs, but that's a tough one to ID unless there's still colored paint marks on them...I'll have to check the parts catalog for that. They may have had stickers.

[Rapdron]

Hey Matt

The car has it's 4 row radiator still installed, and even has the the 421 emblem still mounted.
The rear looks to be a 3.08 safe-t-trac, which would seem right since it is an Air Conditioned automatic.

I have a bare, rust-free 65 Catalina frame from New Mexico, and I've wire wheeled a lot of the rear frame without finding a VIN#.
Unless I can find out exactly where to look for a number stamped on the frame of this car, it would be almost impossible to find the VIN# with the body still attached.

Ron

[MPKind]

So far everything seems to fit a 2+2 car. I know this is a silly question, but did you check the PHS VIN on the documents with the VIN plate on the car? A clerical error on someone else's behalf is possible. Can that number on the Texas inspection sticker be researched? How about investigating who lost the car from storage...I'm sure you've already considered those things. The frame VIN seems like a myth to me, I've never heard of one on any car, but maybe someone on PYF knows something that's rarely discussed.

[Rapdron]

I did run the VIN# that is currently attached to the car.
Jim from PHS stated it was a Catalina, NOT a 2+2
Also the PHS for the VIN# currently on the car doesn't A/C as an option, but the car definitely has A/C, and complete at that. The compressor and all the hoses are still intact

[65WJ]

VIN on frame location.

Top of frame under trunk pan behind drivers side rear wheel.

patrick

[MPKind]

Originally Posted by 65WJ

VIN on frame location.

Top of frame under trunk pan behind drivers side rear wheel.

patrick

Now we're getting somewhere. I never knew that. I don't recall seeing that when I restored my frame, but that was over 10 years ago. Sounds kind of impossible to see without lifting the car off the frame, but maybe there's a way.

[Rapdron]

Patrick
The frame has way too much rust & scale in that area to be able to find a VIN#
I cut a small opening in the trunk floor (It was rusty anyway, rear window leaked badly thanks to the vinyl roof), to see if I could locate it, but the frame is too far gone behind the rear wheels to find anything readable.

I was, however, able to locate the VIN# on my 66 Bonneville.
Exactly where you said it should be.
Thanks , Ron

[LibertyBlueJudge69]

Try looking under the heater box cutout on the firewall. I know its there on gto's but I cant remember if my 66 Cat has it there.

[LASJayhawk]

Originally Posted by MPKind

Now we're getting somewhere. I never knew that. I don't recall seeing that when I restored my frame, but that was over 10 years ago. Sounds kind of impossible to see without lifting the car off the frame, but maybe there's a way.

Use a mirror. the partial vin is also under the heater box or evaporator box on the engine side of the firewall.

[Ragtop Man]

One other feature: The side trim. One year only, a total PITA to install and align when it was FACTORY... for someone to do it as a home-brew project, get all the moldings and clip packages, then knock all the holes in the right place for it... well, I want to meet that guy because he must be Pete Estes' ghost.

I'm still thinking this was a 2+2 that got reloaded as a Cat for some...purpose.

Sounds like it would help a body man put his kids through college! But gotta save these big gals or there won't be any left.

[70ra455]

Here is my vin on the drivers side, on top of the frame, toward the rear.

[Rapdron]

I found the vin on the New Mexico bare boxed frame I have, but gave up looking on the Catalina body with the 2+2 trim.
Almost impossible to see even with a mirror, since the body was literally sitting on the frame.
I wound up trading the Catalina for a 66 Bonneville convertible parts car that has yielded a lot of great parts for my 66 Catalina convertible.
The Bonneville was sitting for 20+ years behind a customers home on GRASS and it totally destroyed the frame.
Motor is stuck, but it does have a relatively rust free battery tray.
I bead blasted it, and it will have a new home in the Catalina convertible once it gets powder coated. My original tray looked like swiss cheese !
The car also had a nice AM/FM radio with a reverb, a 6 way power bench seat, a power antenna and all the switches under the dash pad.
All these will find a home in my Black Cat
The best part.......an almost perfect, crack and craze free black & clear steering wheel.
I just removed it tonight and on closer inspection, it is in amazing condition for being almost 50 years old. I'm really impressed
Wish it was red to match my red interior, but definitely a nice find.
I hope to use the Bonneville hood to graft a GTO hood scoop onto.
Plans are to make it look like the GTO's big brother with the GTO hood scoop and Grand Prix header panel and grills.
I'll post photos of the wheel tomorrow to see if someone has something interesting they might want to trade for it.
Ron

[Ragtop Man]

Love the idea of making this more GTO-like with the GP Grille and lamps -- would not hesitate to pull the 2+2 from the hood and put it where the GP Badge would have been. Wouldn't be too hard to imagine a one-off for someone like a Pete Estes or Bill Mitchell done with factory bits to make it really stand out.

Swing for the fence and pop in a set of the Cibie lights like the X-400...yum.

[Rapdron]

Hi Bob
Exactly what I plan to accomplish, a one of one 66 full-size GTO
I have cut out the panel for the hood scoop, and will use the 3M epoxy to hold it in place.
It is supposed to be able to hold a quarter panel together;a hood scoop should be cake
I have started to graft a set of 2+2 "Gills" into the quarter panel. Like the look and happen to have a spare set.
Plans were to convert it into a 4 speed, but Brad, 63gpman, planted the idea of a Hurst dual gate mounted onto a stock console.
And 2+2 side trim in place of the Catalina side moldings.

It's going to be a long winter getting this car ready for it's long range goal.
Going to My 50th HS reunion (1966 - 2016) next spring with my then girl friend, now bride, in my 66 Cat Convert.
Did I forget we had our 1st date in 1966.
Yeah, that's why I'm hooked on having a 66
We did go together to my senior prom.....driving my older brothers Burgundy 65 GTO tri-power convertible.
Priceless !