[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by MPKind

I figured if I paid, he'd motivate and finish the project since he had other cars to paint as well. My theory is that he uses one customer's cash to finance other peoples cars.

That's extremely common in the small business world, especially with body shops. This becomes a huge problem when the money stops coming in, and it all falls apart.

[carcrazy]

Originally Posted by 1965gp

I would go get your parts before they disappear. Unfortunately this happens a lot.

I've been down this road on a 76 Trans Am, 455, 4 speed car. Owner was a "nice" guy but gave excuse after excuse. Then the parts started disappearing...1st the Borg Warner 4 speed transmission, then the carb, next, the radio. Turns out the guy had a cocaine issue and lost the business and I was not aware until a few weeks later. By that point in time the car itself disappeared....never to be seen again. Lesson learned. If I had it to do over I'd just get the car out of there....without hesitation!

[bird72]

I am not sure what to advise. My 72 Formula ratbird was a sorta similar deal about 3 or 4 years ago. Through a close friend, took car to a younger fellow who had done some nice cars and was starting his own shop. Car was rough, but he took a driving assembled car to pieces and 5K and a year later with it sitting outside, I showed up unannounced and took the car and a U-Haul full of parts. It was my choice on least of all evils options.

I got same advice as you, liens, lawyers, baseball bats, etc..... I just couldn't keep pouring money down that drain, enough is enough. It is a rough tough, what I call "Teaching". I hate them. Teachings Life goes on, it lead me to a better Bird, oh well. A younger more rowdy me would have done serious harm to him or his shop. I don't know what to advise..... I smell a rat based on your posts, and one needs to end rat interactions if possible. Sorry on yer woes brother. The bastids will rot in some Edsel Hell for their greed.

[LOADED 70 JUDGE]

I had my 67 corvette in paint jail for 3 years. Paint and body shops are the number one reason people quit the hobby. they finally just give up because they cant get their car painted.

[Bob's GTO]

Good advice from everyone, I'm going to add my 2 cents. When looking for a reputable painter, drop by your local Automotive Paint stores and talk to the sales manager. Those guys know who is good at what and who you can trust. If you start hearing the same name or two a couple of times, that's where you should go. They also know about the guy that doesn't have a commercial shop but does great work in his home garage.
Good Luck!

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by Bob's GTO

They also know about the guy that doesn't have a commercial shop but does great work in his home garage.
Good Luck!

Sometimes, he actually works there.
One of the guys at my body supply shop paints on the side. I started to get him to paint mine but he was backed up. At any rate, he told me that once he got on it, he'd have it back in two weeks. He just didn't want to take it until he was ready so I went with my buddy in spite of the fact that I knew it would take much longer. The main thing is that I trusted either one of them to do a good job and not rob me.

[bdk1976]

I read so many of these stories that when it came time to paint my car, I did it myself. It is definitely not rocket science and there is all the info you need (and more) on the web. Not to mention it can save you thousands of $$ in many cases. If you somehow can't find an 'acceptable' place to spray, I'd suggest doing as much as you can and then bringing it to MAACO or similar.

My car certainly isn't perfect and took me a long time to complete, but it looks pretty decent and I saw MANY cars with worse paint/body at Barrett-Jackson in Vegas last fall!

[PurelyGTO68]

Originally Posted by MPKind

I decided long ago that I wasn’t going to paint it myself or do the body work. I did do a fair amount of metal panel fabrication and welding but not all of it.

Not knowing what it’ll be like when I get it back I have to have options with how to wrap it up. I have the money to finish so that’s not an issue. But it was an issue when I hired this guy a couple years ago. I’ve come to terms with the series of bad decisions and learned from it.

If there’s one lesson to learn from this experience, it’s thats when you try to save a few bucks it increases the potential for problems to arise.

I could’ve used a local guy that had a solid reputation and was relatively good with his pace but I decided go with someone that was about 1/3 less. In the end that 1/3 will get spent to correct this mess.

Will be wishing for the best outcome on this for you. If you come out even in the end then that would be the best possible scenario I think.

Always lessons to be learned. We all have been there in some way or another.

If you end up finding someone else to finish the work then I would suggest you both agree on a schedule of values and pay as items are completed. It's like progress payments but better since it's not percentage based. If you separate the work into tasks or phases and assign a value to each item then the shop will invoice you on a monthly basis for each completed item (values can be estimated if a hard quote is not practical). When you get each invoice then you can inspect the work or accept photos depending on your comfort level. Agree ahead of time to a percentage the shop can mark up materials and then ask to see the invoices. Pay the invoices if the work is complete and retain 10% for retention. The shop can then request retention reduction once the total project is "substantially complete" which is usually about 80% or so. For large projects, retention reduction is from 10% to 5% so there will still be 5% that is held back.

This method is a great way to motivate the shop to complete the work. If the shop won't work with the terms then you are at their mercy and might want to find someone else. The American Institute of Architects has a form for this called G702 and G703 that works for this purpose. It's well used in the construction industry so it should be very easy to aquire. In this scenario, the car owner is free to pay the current retention amount and retrieve the car at any time during the process.

Another way is liquidated damages where you charge a fee if the project isn't complete on time. That method sounds good on paper but rarely works in practice.

Just tossing out some suggestions that might help others avoid situations like this.

Keep us posted, we are hoping for the best.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[dataway]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

This is exactly what I did. Cost me about $4K including paint. Took him about 9 months but I knew going in that I would be behind some of his regular business hours customers. I checked on it weekly and he had no problem with me doing some of my own work whenever I wanted to. I did 90% of the body work in my driveway before I took it to him.
I don't have a show car, just a nice driver. Photo is right after we rolled it out of the shop...

I'd be happy as a pig in slop to have that paint job for $4000. There ARE some quite talented, old boy sort of painters out there that do decent work for reasonable money. Many of them have an excellent work ethic too. Not an easy option for some people. But I've lived in this town for 35 years, and have been hanging out with the gear heads here for a long time. So you get to know people. Makes it easier.

[GT182]

Old Goat 67 was in that same predicament with his 67 GTO. He got it out of "Jail" but took a Cop with him to do it.

This is what I've learned from advise and the "hard way". Never ever pay in full before the work is done, get and keep any receipts in a safe place because you'll probably need them before it's finished... if it gets that far. If they won't give your money back use the receipts and take them to court. Sue for you money, parts if any, and court costs. As long as you have receipts any judge is more likely to be on your side. And don't do anything stupid to get yourself in trouble.... stay smart and one step ahead the other guy. A camera and a way to record any conversations it is a definite plus too, along with a witness. And having someone with you at all times is the best and smartest thing to do when dealing with these rip-off artists.

[Dick Boneske]

Go with a trailer and get the car! I had to do that with my '64 GTO after it was at the local body shop for 9 years, beginning in 1987. He began working on the car--replaced the floors, fixed a dented quarter panel, did rust repair. Then, after about a year, he stopped. He kept promising to work on it, but every time he began, he had an excuse as to why he couldn't work on it---someone quit working there, he had a family issue, didn't have room in the shop, etc. etc. I had paid $3,000 up 'til that time.

An interesting side note--after the car was there for 5 years, my wife filed for divorce. After I found out how much trouble I was in with alimony, buying back my house, kids, etc., I called the body shop owner and asked him to hold up work for awhile. After 6 months passed, he sent me a bill for storage at $500. That was in 1992.

Finally in 2006, I borrowed a friend's trailer and took the car home. The doors, front fenders, and deck lid were no where to be found. I assume he sold those parts. I took the car to another body shop, which completed the work in about a year. So, a project that began in 1987 was not completed until 2012.

Here's the before & after.

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by dataway

I'd be happy as a pig in slop to have that paint job for $4000. There ARE some quite talented, old boy sort of painters out there that do decent work for reasonable money. Many of them have an excellent work ethic too. Not an easy option for some people. But I've lived in this town for 35 years, and have been hanging out with the gear heads here for a long time. So you get to know people. Makes it easier.

Yeah dataway, I thought it turned out quite nice. I can see little, tiny, flaws here and there but I look at it every day. Most think it's pretty darned nice and never notice the minor warts here and there.

[Dick Boneske]

I remember the original body shop guy saying the GTO will never be a show car. Well, in 2013, it was judged at the Dayton CoVention Concours Gold.

A lot of work, but the end result kind of makes the history unimportant.

[Greg Reid]

Mr. Boneske, you have what is possibly my favorite '64 on the site...with the possible exception of the one below...

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Bob's GTO

Good advice from everyone, I'm going to add my 2 cents. When looking for a reputable painter, drop by your local Automotive Paint stores and talk to the sales manager. Those guys know who is good at what and who you can trust. If you start hearing the same name or two a couple of times, that's where you should go. They also know about the guy that doesn't have a commercial shop but does great work in his home garage.
Good Luck!

I think that's a great idea I had never thought of. They would also know who paid their bills on time and bought allot of supplies meaning they were getting work out.
Interestingly, just today my March issue of Hemmings Muscle Machines came. On the last page Jim McGowan has an entire column about "Paint Jail"!. He claims he coined the phrase in the 1970's, so this problem is certainly not new. It's fun reading.

[imposter]

i've been in for 10 months now haven't started anything at least i haven't
given him any money

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by imposter

i've been in for 10 months now haven't started anything at least i haven't
given him any money

My experience has been most body shops operate like a super expensive vending machine, If you put no money in, you get nothing out. If you put your entire paycheck in, and the mechanism jams, you have lost your paycheck. I have had the best luck, starting with a deposit to prime the pump, say 10%. Then I check on the progress often, with a pocket full of money. If they are working on it allot, I give them more money to keep them working. If I show up and it looks like someone may have run a piece of sand paper over it 2 times, they may get little or no money. I never pay over 50% until some color is on the car. This seems to be the only way to keep the job moving. Body and paint work is by far the most frustrating part of this hobby. I have painted several cars myself, but I know my limitations. I am just not capable of show car quality work. So I am at the mercy of a "paint artist". It's no fun being in that position.

[ta6point6]

I would say you already gave the guy all the money make him finish it. Go down there be stern and tell him you want it done in 6 months to year (whatever you want) and if car is not done you will explore other options. I know 6 hours away is a long trip but tell him you will be back in 2-3 months to check on progress. I would at least try and put pressure on the guy and see if he will finish it.

[Dick Boneske]

LOL--That's my wife's '64! I'm torn, also.

Here's how it looked in 2015. What an ordeal it was to find front fenders & doors & a deck lid.

Dick

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

Mr. Boneske, you have what is possibly my favorite '64 on the site...with the possible exception of the one below...

[MPKind]

6 months to a year. No. He’s had it for 28 months already. I’m paying him a visit next month and giving him 1 month to wrap it up and deliver. I don’t even care if it not put together right. I’ll get that fixed at home.