[dataway]

Excellent story ... great there are people still willing to go the extra mile for us old timers.

Just for a hoot a did up a quick drawing and had it priced. Just spec'd cold rolled steel, no hardening .. guestimated dimensions, went with .003" tolerance. Came up with about $4 a piece in lots of 50. $3 and change for lots of 100. No knurling. Might give it a shot turning up a few on the lathe and hardening them. Think I could get away with no heat treatment? Wouldn't think there would be enough bending forces to break them off, besides, tack welding would probably soften the lower end.

So that's a valuable box of pins.

[Sun Tuned]

Yes pins for Pontiac points and HEI were the same diameter.

There were 3 different pins in 2 different sizes, so you guys ordering online make sure what size is being sold before you get wise and try to order a train car full.

Some folks are just not interested in the aftermarket deal and I understand that. I also understand simple math. And if one adds up a bunch of issues to be fixed, then you end up at the notion it's cheaper to buy new aftermarket. That's an option. Some wish not to take it and repair what they have.

I'm not sure how many are actually in that bag in that box but I'll tell you this, it weighs 15 lbs. there's more in there 2 at a time than I'll likely dream of repairing. One hell of a "sample run" for sure.

Every distributor is different much like a set of fingerprints, hard to say what or if any or all of them need. So that's a completely custom deal there. Some need a bushing, some need a bushing and a shaft, some ( like 2 I've seen) are just dead and don't need to be repaired. Some don't need much at all so it's hard to say how much without looking at it

[68 Firebird]

Bob all good info. There is differently allot more to this.
Heck I took the easy way out and installed this 7 years ago.
I inspect/lube weights once a year.
Gotta have something to do in the garage during the winter.
Gerry

[Region Warrior]

SUN TUNED, have a source for HD springs, and do you sell them?
I had to double up 2 medium springs on one side of mine...

[Sun Tuned]

Let me clarify something I said above. As far as Pontiacs are concerned the pins were all the same size. What I consider the big pin pins. Chevy used both big and little and the little they only did for a few years and they utilized the little white nylon bushing that looked like a top hat. Those are the pins I believe Standard, borg warner and lastly Delco seems to sell on the computer. Officially as of 2006 and earlier Delco never serviced any pins or bushings in the housings separately. Standard, napa, borg warner, and niehoff offered a listing but I never saw any parts other than the pic in the parts book. Anyhow, someone PMed me and asked what I figure was an approximate number of pins in the box. He offered a contest to guess the closest number,winner take all. Hahaha lol, um , NO. You figure the weight on one then figure that into 15 lbs, and I bet it's at least 30-40. Enough that no one here ever should be looking for a new shaft based solely upon worn out pins anyway..

Hood springs? That shouldn't be an issue. Unless you need a dump truck load I wouldn't waste the time to sell a couple. Just send me a decent address and I can give you some. The padded mailer n postage would be more money than the springs anyhow. You talking about stock stiff springs?

[dataway]

If you have a sizable stock of various items might consider putting together a "kit". Personally I could use pins and the stiff stock springs ... and whatever other small parts you might have (plastic grease well cover, the little grease well spring washer ...whatever small parts that would make it worthwhile to ship) and I'd certainly pay enough to make it worthwhile.

Considering that I have found it impossible to find OEM springs without buying a complete old distributor, and I am really tired of trying to work with aftermarket, I'd pay $10 plus shipping costs in a heartbeat for decent OEM springs. Heck, that's what aftermarket will cost me by the time they get to my house.

After going through three old distributors trying to sort out my 68 I've grown very fond of the point ignitions. They seem dead reliable and perfectly suitable for a stock engine when put into proper condition.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by dataway

If you have a sizable stock of various items might consider putting together a "kit".

^^^ Very fine idea.

[P@blo]

I came across this old Ebay ad and wondered if having the lip on the pin is necessary? This guy made his own but looking at Suntuned's pictures it appears the factory pins came with a raised edge or pad for the weights to pivot off of. A guy could probably use a nylon washer I suppose.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Delco-HEI-D...d=292900447533

[dataway]

Not sure if you guys are talking about the 60's era shafts, but today I messed around with a spare 68 shaft with a bad shaft. First, one of the pins is extra long and sticks out the bottom of the advance cam to engage the limit slot in the advance plate, the other pin is a normal height pin pressed flush with the bottom of the cam.

Also ... these appeared to be soldered in some way, the one I got out pressed out WAY to hard, appeared to have some kind of copper based fusion weld and no spline/knurling. The other pin broke off the end of the advance cam before it came out. If you do plan on pressing out pins, make a little jig first to support things correctly ... I didn't.

While this particular shaft showed considerable use, the pins themselves had zero wear, not sure what they are made of, but they are freakin hard. They have a coppery color.

Anyway, examine what you have closely, appears they used various designs over the years.

The diameter of these pins was 0.186"
Here is a pic of the long pin that extends into the advance limiter slot.

[P@blo]

The ebay seller still has the pins available for any DIYer out there. $20 a pair but at least it's an option that one can consider.

The seller contacted me and the heat treatment process was inspected for correct hardness after manufacturing.

[Joe's Garage]

I theorize that the wear on HEI pins is accelerated is because of the highly-ionized-state of the atmosphere (air) inside the cap that also results in all the 'rust' inside old, used HEIs.

That and the fact that the HEI weights are much larger and heavier, the advance springs are stiffer - suntuned's 'hood spring' comment is just about right - and underhood temps are higher in that vintage vehicles (which cooks off any lube on the pins).


That 'longer' pin in dataway's pic is the one that had that little hard rubber bushing on it from the factory to limit mechanical advance in the distributor.

The good-quality 'old-style' advance curve kits (like the ones from HO Racing) included a precision bronze bushing to replace that rubber one, which had normally rotted and fallen off over the years.

The missing bushing results in between 27* and 30* of mechanical advance in the distributor. WAY too much to compensate for without a replacement bushing.

I wonder if the used (HARRD) points-style pins could be used in an HEI distributor.........

[Schurkey]

HEI pins also wear because GM bragged up the "maintenance-free" nature of the distributor. Every tech that installed points knew to lube the advance mechanism. No more points...no more lube. The distributor cap never came off for yearly inspection, it came off after the car misfired...and then was replaced with another cap and no attention typically paid to the advance mechanism.

[Joe's Garage]

With the points, you had the cap off AT LEAST once a year when you swapped out the points - more if you were a gear-head.

With HEI, as Schurkey noted, it just sat there until something went wrong.

It wouldn't surprise me if GM didn't bother to harden the HEI distributor pins and/or made them from a less-durable material. Especially if it saved them 2 cents per distributor......

[Sun Tuned]

Joe's got it, and Schurkey for sure has it. Don't forget also that in addition to all that, that the shaft also runs magnetized when running too.

So as was mentioned ANY misfire encountered will try and weld the weights to the pins. Since that doesn't actually happen little small microscopic bits of weight and pin material get turned into "red dust" due to the ozone present under the cap.

[jonmachota78]

Originally Posted by P@blo

So at what point is it more cost effective to go with a new billet distributor?

I came real close to buying a new DUI because my distributor needed attention and I just didn't have parts. I went ahead and let Bob do mine, he left no stone unturned and went through it and made everything right, stuff I wasn't even aware was an issue, I'm confident it's set up right now for my car and will run good for a very long time now. He saved me good money and provided a better piece than I would have got from DUI or any other new supplier for that matter. I'm not bad mouthing DUI at all, I'm just saying Bob's got em beat. Thanks, Bob, I can't wait to put it in service when the weather breaks!

I got no dog in this fight, just giving credit where it's due!

[Sun Tuned]

Dataway that pin in your pic is not intended to come out. The ones I was referring to are the weight pins. They come out rather easily with a punch.

Thanks Jon! I appreciate the kind words. DUI and me,go way back, so even though we have same last name we are not related. We however are so connected as friends some would say we were family, but the simple truth to that is we are not. However, they do things in ways I cannot, and I can do things in ways that they cannot. We work together though, very well.

An example of this is one day Steve called me to ask me what I knew about a 455 SD. I told him a little bit,and he said he really wanted to offer a DUI for them. Now they would have figured this out on their own but he valued my opinion about the deal enough to call me and ask. I told him about the distributor gear was different, and I told him about the sleeve GM put in the housings. I carried him a NOS original sleeve and a GM Blueprint for same sleeve and put it in his hands. The results of which are why you can buy a DUI that fits as well as it does in the block. It's called teamwork. We do it on occasion. Better deal for everyone.

They don't service OEM distributors, that's what I do. So between the two of us everyone is basically covered.

Some of what I can do is geared to the nuclear option if you have to have your dead original brought back to life.

[P@blo]

Sounds like I good service option for the enthusiast and definitely was not trying to take away from the good service offered. And I had no idea the DUI is a billet ball bearing distributor but if a guy can get the same work done and still come under the cost for new high performance distributor it could make sense.

Also keep in mind I am selling nothing to our forum members and ultimately your money is your money. But starting a thread how to repair worn pins no one can acquire is simply advertising for a business aka marketing.

[dataway]

SunTuned ... Heheheh ... I'm so glad I have you around .... I must be getting old

I grabbed the first shaft I came to and without thinking thought those were the pins the weights hang on instead of on the point cam plate.

Of course they weren't worn ... only the spring is hooked to them.

Wow No wonder they were not worn and came out so hard.

That's embarrassing.

EVERYONE ... IGNORE MY PREVIOUS POST

[Skip Fix]

He did two 409 distributors for me and they look brand new! I'm betting if you really needed the pins redone on a specific distributor he could freshen the whole thing up for you. More like saying hey don't junk the whole thing if this is all that is wrong they can be fixed and like selling off some of the NOS parts for projects collected over the years you know you might use on a future project-you hang on to them.

[Sun Tuned]

Performance distributors DUI's are not billet nor are they all bearing. Kelly Davis spent a pretty good amount of money back in the early 80's putting the ball bearing thing to bed hiring a Kimberly Clark engineer and ultimately came to the conclusion...
Bushings are the best option for an automotive distributor.

Dataway you old folks are a determined bunch of old farts I'll give you that much. I honestly do not see how you got "that" pin out without simply destroying it in the process. Hell it looks untouched. You did a damn fine job getting it out anyhow.

These pins are easy to acquire. Just gotta read the text above to see what the deal is. You've missed an important part of what I said. I've for sure replaced at least 13 to 14 pairs on members distributors right here on this forum before. Some knew about it and some probably never realized it after I told em what I did, or at least they didn't pay too much attention to it anyhow.

It's too late to buy a brand new Delco shaft. But you can always repair what you have IF you have some decent quality parts with which to start out with.