[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by Judge273

Wake, let me know how to get JW and JM in on my car too!

Last month at a local show, while I was away from my 71 Judge JW came over in a golf cart and check her out for quite awhile. I missed him but Norwood (Craig) said "he looked it over good"...

Off topic . . .

Never had JW nor JM look my junk over, but I was MOST fortunate to have JS (Sawruk, RIP) give my '72 Sundance GTO several "lookings over" at the 2007 POCI nats in Tulsa. He even consulted with the judges when they were gonna penalize me for having "those Corvette tires" (G60 Polyglas) on my car. John set 'em straight right away by referring to my window sticker which I had displayed in the trunk area.

We ended up chatting for quite some time, and he even took me over to the swap meet area to purchase a rear speaker cover he'd found to fit it.

OK, BTT . . .

[bulletpruf]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Yep Jason D.
Too bad he just WOULD NOT sell it before he restored it.
I would have left it alone.

Here are pix of 3 cars that "might" could be documented - or documentable.

Bulletpruf ran across this first one in a private collection.
No info could be revealed.
But guy is/was a Pontiac Rarity collector from way back.

The second was posted by Uncle Judge. No idea on it.

Third car was owned by a Quint Stires, and said to have been genuine.
Anyone know Quint ?

Todd -

I'm on the road now, but will take another look at my pics from that day when I get home. IIRC, I snapped a pic of the VIN, but it didn't come out real clear. Will let you know. I don't recall if he claimed that it was a factory WT7.

It was that day that I realized exactly what "sensory overload" means. This guy had about 80 cars - almost all GTO's and high horsepower Mopars. He had 4 '67 Hemi GTX's, for example. Had only 2 or 3 chivverlays, which was nice. One Buick (GS hardtop). Maybe one ferd? Anyway, it's a private collection in a small town owned by an unassuming country boy. He rarely lets people check his collection out and understand that I may have been one of the only ones allowed to take pictures.

Scott

[Bucksnort]

A pic I saved from an old thread someone here posted. No black stripes but does have black wing with an 8 point buck :-)

Dan

[70Steve]

How many different factory ads or pics are known to exist of WT7 cars?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Bucksnort

No black stripes but does have black wing with an 8 point buck :-) Dan

LoL
i remember that one. Neat story on it when it was posted.

It is a RamIV 4spd Blue Stripe // White Spoiler. Original owner painted spoiler black.
It got restored - and they put it Black Stripe // White Spoiler.

Same car.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I've got four WT7 promos of 1970.
Almost all of them are different configuration.

Not saying these are all of them ever done though.
Think 2 or 3 more versions out there.

[MikeNoun]

Also the gold (possibly Oribit Orange) shown on the cover of the 70 brochure.

[70Steve]

I think I've seen this in colour too...but I might be wrong.

[70Steve]

BVZ, here is what the girl from your 3rd pic looks like standing up!

[85_SS]

Originally Posted by 70Steve

BVZ, here is what the girl from your 3rd pic looks like standing up!

Unrelated to the WT7 cars, but that's the same location/girl as the OO ad (probably the same day as the weeds in the background even match!)


Interesting that black spoilers were used on other colours in promo's, but (I believe) it is only documented to have ever been offered on polar white cars?

[70Steve]

Originally Posted by 85_SS

Unrelated to the WT7 cars, but that's the same location/girl as the OO ad (probably the same day as the weeds in the background even match!)


Interesting that black spoilers were used on other colours in promo's, but (I believe) it is only documented to have ever been offered on polar white cars?

It would have been an interesting day at the photo shoot, that's for sure...OO Judge, WT7 Judge, blonde model getting in and out of her gear.... Here's another shot of the OO one.

As for the car on the cover of the 70 Performance brochure...I wonder if it was the white one, that features inside the brochure, just airbrushed a different colour for the sake of some artistic reason?

What's the deal with the second pic you posted BVZ?...white spoiler?

[1beautifuldaughter]

Originally Posted by Bucksnort

A pic I saved from an old thread someone here posted. No black stripes but does have black wing with an 8 point buck :-)

Dan

WHAT DA BUCK!?

[Keith Seymore]

The pictures themselves (with the lake in the background) appear to have been taken inside the oval track at the GM Milford Proving Ground.

K

[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

The pictures themselves (with the lake in the background) appear to have been taken inside the oval track at the GM Milford Proving Ground.

K

Looks like that would be Sloan Lake.

I recognize that name, of course, but who is Pickett Lake named for?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by 70Steve

What's the deal with the second pic you posted BVZ?...white spoiler?

Just about all those WT7 promos show a different configuration.
White Tach // Black Tach --- White Spoiler // Black Spoiler ...

Gold Judge on cover was WT6 proto-type.
It was cancelled, and WT7 work began.
LoL j / k

[Wakepowell]

Here is what I learned about the1970 promo cars from Jim Wangers. The two magazine ads showing the polar white judge on the street and the car in the performance broacher are the same car. The pictures of the car downtown were shot early on a Sunday morning without a permit in downtown Detroit. Jim said that they got there early Sunday to catch the streets wet after the street sweeper had just past. You will notice that the spoiler is white and the hood decals are Ram Air III not Ram Air IV as the broacher car. Jim explained to me that his group was working with Pontiac Engineering and that they changed the decals on the car several times to give the appearance of different cars available.

After the pictures of the car were taken in downtown Detroit he began working with Pontiac’s Engineering Department to modify the color of the spoiler and tach. The next photo’s taken for the Performance Broacher were taken with these modifications. This was done very quickly since they were under a tight schedule to get the broacher out the door. The dealers only had the full line broacher which was predominately artist renditions of the cars.

The Performance Broacher photos were taken at a boat launch on Lake Michigan near Detroit. The idea for the shoot was to catch the sun coming up over the lake with the cars. Jim said the plan didn’t work because of the heavy fog that morning but working under a time crunch they shot the photo’s anyway. You’ll notice that the “models” are just lounging by the cars in directors’ chairs. He said that while they were waiting for the fog to lift the photographer took advantage of the casual setting to get some shots. These ended up being the best shots and ultimately used to get the broacher out the door. Jim said that even with the challenges he had this was his favorite broacher he did for Pontiac.

The photo’s of the Polar White and Orbit Orange Judge were not taken by Jim Wangers group. These were stock photo’s taken and used by GM. They were taken sometime in December of 1969 at the GM proving grounds. The polar white Judge is not the same car used by Jim Wangers

[Lloyd-TX]

Jim has a great memory for details like those.

Thanks for filling us in, Rob.

[judgebad]

The story continues
Well we finished the car about the end of 2007-2008 and added it to the collection. At the end of 2010 we decided to see if we could sell the Judge so in Dec. 2010 we listed it on ebay. The reason I must have been mistaken about John Bernardi is because when we purchased the car Greg said after 1975 the car was driven a bunch more years and then retired to a weekend dragger. It is my mistake that because the title was johns I assumed that he was the longtime owner. Greg never told me that and in no way am I saying that I was misled, but due to the fact that he never mentioned John's short time as owner I thought this was the chain of title and this is the reason why. In the middle of Dec. 2010 the last day of my ebay auction I get a phone call for John to let me know that he has my original engine block. As you might imagine I am happily surprise to get this news. John goes on to say that he knew the block was mine as he had seen the ebay add and knew that I had his old Judge. When he said he was the old owner that is when I came to the assumption he was the 1975 owner but obviously I was wrong. John went on to tell me that he had purchase the block a little while ago and when inspecting it one day realized the vin was our old Judge. As most people are now aware I am talking about the infamous RAM IV block (with the funky 4) that was discussed for weeks. I ask him to email me some pictures for verification and so he did. The pictures looked good, the vin pictures do not look fresh at all and all seemed to make sense so we agreed to do a purchase and came to terms on the block. Knowing that I was planning to sell the Judge we both agreed that I would send John a deposit, relist the car and pay the balance after the car was sold in order to avoid shipping the block to me and only weeks later reshipping it somewhere else. I told him that if the car doesn't sell I would send him the balance later in the new year. He was fine with all the details so I sent out the deposit. When I list the car again the blogs pickup on the pictures I posted and the questions went viral. After being advised at the talk going around I start to question the authenticity of the block and made a call to a very experienced Pontiac friend to ask for an expert opinion. His first impression was it looked suspect and a couple of weeks later the answer was, could be, maybe, possibly, but probably not. I was on the fence for over a month not sure what to do. It didn't really matter what my decision was as I found out a couple of weeks later he had sold it to someone else on ebay for about a third of my price and now the block was gone. I came to terms with the miss and thought well I couldn't be sure anyways. The reason I bring this up now is, you can guess the new owner of the block contacts me to let me know he has it. My question is with all the back and forth that went on it was never really concluded as to if it is or isn't my block? I hate to drag this up again but it would really suck to buy a bogus block twice or even worse miss out on the correct one twice for this special car.

[Lloyd-TX]

jb - it might be tough to do, but it's damned sure worth finding out if it's the original block.

Is the block owner a PY'er, by chance?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Thats good info on the promo pix Wake.
I figured the Go-Go Boot Girl was probably the latest version, since its the only ones that mimmick the actual production configurations.

=======================================

This is the info from B-J promo's that mislead my beliefs.
Clearly though, they have more than just one error. So not too surprising.

And many lesser versed Pontiac folk call the PHS Invoice a buildsheet.
Have witnessed that before.

Early Pre-Pub:

Vehicle Details1970 PONTIAC GTO JUDGE 2 DOOR HARDTOP
Lot Number: 1316
Reserve Type: No Reserve


Options
Engine: 400 RAM AIR IV
Transmission Type: 4-SPEED
Horsepower: 366
Cylinders: V8
Exterior Color: POLAR WHITE
Interior Color: BLACK



Description
400cid/366hp Ram Air IV V8 with a 4-speed transmission. A one owner Judge with 29 factory options and Build Sheet documentation.


As Auction Week neared closer:

1970 PONTIAC GTO JUDGE 2 DOOR HARDTOP
Lot Number: 1316

Options
Engine: 400 RAM AIR IV
Transmission Type: 4-SPEED
Horsepower: 370
Cylinders: V8
Exterior Color: WHITE
Interior Color: BLACK



Description
This 1970 GTO RAM AIR IV Judge is one of the rarest and one of the fastest cars GM ever built. It is a 1 owner car with only 36,000 original miles. With over 26 factory options on the build sheet, it is likely the rarest Judge ever built. This Judge was born in October 1969 and was delivered to Pontiac Motor Division for use as a factory car. It is believed to have been used as a touring auto show car throughout the 1970 model year. It has been fully documented by Pontiac Historic Services and actually has two PHS documentation packages. One PHS package shows the cars PMD factory heritage and the other shoes the car with PMD added options as delivered in June 1970 to Jim Causely Pontiac in Michigan. After undergoing an extensive rotisserie restoration, this car is as correct and as loaded as any RAM AIR IV car. Some of the extremely rare options this car has include the rear tail light monidor on the package tray, powerflow ventilation, factory installed remote hood lock/release, AM/FM radio, custom ordered 4:33 rearend, M-21 close ratio transmission and the only known black spoiler that was installed by Pontiac Motor Division,. This one owner, 3600 mile 1970 RAM AIR IV GTO Judge even comes with the original title issued to the original owner in 1970. It is a numbers matching car with a numbered service replacement block that we believe was installed by Pontiac Motor Division. A more rare and collectable GTO would be very difficult if not impossible to find.