[Old Tin Indian]

I installed my Derale series 10000 16 row stacked plate transmission oil cooler on my car today.
I really didn't want to, but, I installed it on the radiator again. But this cooler size wise is about 2 1/2 times smaller than the Hayden 18,000 GVW trans cooler that I took off, but its suppose to be good for almost twice what the the old cooler was capable of. I even plumbed it through the radiator cooler. There is now so much more of the radiator exposed to the air flowing through the grille now. I also installed a 160* stant super-stat (i drilled two 3/16" bleed holes in it) and new antifreeze. 50-50 mix.
I didn't take it it out for a ride because it was raining, but I let it run in the garage at idle for about 40 minutes. (82* and high humidity)
The temp gauge went to 180* and stayed there. I shut it off for about 10 minutes and the temp went to around 205*. i started it back up and within a couple of minutes it was back to 180*. I can't wait to take it for a ride on the next hot day. I believe I've finally got a handle on this problem.
Tony

[Old Tin Indian]

Took the car out of the garage. Washed it while it idled. About 20 minutes.
I took it for a 30 minute ride. 80* outside. With the large trans cooler off of the radiator, (the new one is 2 1/2 times smaller) the cooling system IS working. Idling at a long light the temp did want to crawl up to around 210*, but when cruising the temp would come down to 190*. At idle I am flowing some good air. The reason I know this, is because I sealed the shroud with some foam weatherstripping. In fact I actually used spray adhesive and glued it in place this time. After a few minutes of running the air flow was so great, it sucked the foam right off of the shroud, shredded it in the fan and threw it all over the engine. It's the second time this has happened.
I don't think I'm ever going to get this problem to ever be any better, but now at least i'm kind of happy with the cooling system pulling the temp down to 190*. My stock 400 never moved much from 185*.
Hope this can help anyone having this problem.
Tony

[Willshire]

If it stays below 210, doesn't that fall within manufacturers design parameters? Don get me wrong, 180 is definitely optimum but, below 210 at idle at a stop light seems pretty normal. Glad you got it nailed down! Good thread!

[68blackbird]

Willshire

Does your Pontiac run 210 degrees on a regular basis?

Rich

Originally Posted by Willshire

If it stays below 210, doesn't that fall within manufacturers design parameters? Don get me wrong, 180 is definitely optimum but, below 210 at idle at a stop light seems pretty normal. Glad you got it nailed down! Good thread!

[Willshire]

Only when it's 30*c and i am at a long light. Original 7 blade clutch fan with AC condenser in front of it. I have a 180 tstat in it so cruizing it's at that anyway. My 2008 GMC runs close to 210 all day long. I suspect if i had a 165 stat in the GP it would still be 210 if the light was long enough but, would quickly retreat back to tstat set point on the highway. Original harrison 3 core in the GP. My thinking is, an idling car doesn't create enough suction to drop the temp at a light. It's different at a light than idling on the side of the road or in your driveway if you haven't drivin it. At a light, you have spent time running up the RPM's creating more heat so when you get to the light that heat is still there and will drive up the temp. IMO if you can sit at a light and not go over 210, you're fine. A: it's inside of the design parameters of a pressurized system and b: the 50/50 mix has a 230 or 240 boil over point. In a pressurized system you can run the liquid (water) past it's boiling point and it will remain a liquid. Mind you that is only by a couple degrees. For instance, superheated steam in generating stations is only 104*c which is 4c over the boiling point of water.

[Willshire]

Electric fans (my gmc has 2) are energized by temperature one may be set at 195 and the second at 210 to maintain 200-ish temps. And those are full speed when they come on. Unlike a clutch that can only spin as fast as the pulley driving it.

I wasn't sure the intent of your question 68blackbird but, i hope the long winded post answered it LOL

[Old Tin Indian]

I remember back in the old days, i'm talking the 70's, things seem to be better for whatever reason. Pontiac's were the ones that usually ran hotter than usual.
My stock 400 NEVER ran hot though. 185*. It's only when I installed the 455 in the 80's that I started to have the heating problems. The high compression Big block Chevy's, Stage 1 Buicks and the Hemi's usually didn't have a running hot problem, unless there was a problem with the cooling system. We all ran Sunoco 260 and it definitely had a better burn than today's garbage we call gasoline. But, it seemed that it was Pontiac that used to ride the edge when it came to cooling systems. I'm a die hard Pontiac man, but I can see why many guys traded their Pontiac's for a BB Chevy.
I would never do that, but I came close to putting it back to stock or even selling it, but I stuck it out and with the help of this forum and a lot of hard thinking I'm kind of satisfied now.
Tony

[68blackbird]

210 is definitely not boiling with proper coolant mix. All i know is my car doesn't run the same at 210 then it does at 195. Maybe it's my tune up, or maybe it's today's gas. I don't know exactly, but I know a mechanical fuel pump and a carburetor deal with heat much differently then an in tank fuel pump and fuel injection.

Rich

[Old Tin Indian]

I'm definitely going to check the tune-up again even though I know it's right on.
The timing might be off a tad cause I was moving it around a little, but that will be back to where it's suppose to be this week.
I'm just going to have to live with what I've got and be happy that at least the temp does come down now.
Tony

[torqjunki]

Have you gotten the car up to 200 deg or so with the rad cap off and looked at the coolant flow at idle? One other test....get up to cruising speed, say 50 mph until temp settles out. Slip the car into neutral and coast to stop. Did the temp rise quickly after going to neutral? Yes? Get car up to cruise again and let temp settle. Slip into neutral but this time keep engine at around 2000 rpm. Did this keep it from heating up? Yes? Coolant flow at idle is not sufficient. Sorry if you have done this. Have not read entire tread.

[Old Tin Indian]

I have done those things. I noticed that when I took my old thermostat out though and installed a stant super stat (with a couple of 3/16" holes drilled into it) water flow in the radiator has slowed down a bit. I also have a water pump pulley from a "66 GTO on it which is 1" smaller in diameter from the '67 GTO. I've had that on for the past 10 years to speed things up a little. Will keep an eye on everything. I know I said I'm settling for what I've got but I will always look for ways to improve on things.
Tony

[Batman]

Hard to believe it was 10 years ago, but fan full in performed best when I tested
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=489874

[kate`s67gto]

Had a 76 Monte Carlo with the fan fully in the shroud. That car did not over heat once. The fan had to be 5-6" away from radiator. So that is the way I have the 67 fan fully inside shroud. The fan is maybe 4" away from radiator. No issues at all.

[george kujanski]

Wow, 10 years Batman! Your results are still valid today.

George

[Old Tin Indian]

I have a heavy duty hayden clutch on the fan. there is just about 1" in front of the clutch to the radiator. not much room to move the fan forward and still get the shroud on. i bought this car in 1977. it was 10 years old at the time but from the timing cover forward it's the stock set-up. i bought what's suppose to be the stock spacer from ames. but, that put the fan into the radiator. unless, the water pump is wrong, which i don't believe to be the case, the fan can't be moved any farther forward.
i added the shroud years ago. hopefully you can see where the fan is in the photos.
but, like i said, the temp does creep up at a long light, but comes right down when moving.
my next step is to change the percentage of anti-freeze to water.
tony

[AdamIsAdam]

Originally Posted by Old Tin Indian

has anyone ever used a transmission cooler like the one pictured and with what results? i'm thinking of removing the hayden 18,000 lb GVW cooler on the front of the radiator and installing this new cooler pictured towards the bottom of the radiator to open up much of the surface area of the radiator to the airflow through the grill. i've done everything else. i'm hoping this works. this is the only thing i've never addressed because i never thought about it.
any thoughts are well taken.
thanks
tony

I'm reading and learning as I consider switching from my Taurus electric fan to a clutch fan setup some day.

Anyway, I recall reading somewhere trustworthy in the past the the tube-type tranny coolers are NOT efficient at all. I can't back that up with anything but an aging memory, so take it FWIW. But I recall taking away the knowledge that they were to be avoided.

PS I ordered the book on cooling here: http://www.books4cars.com/

[george kujanski]

Surface area of the fins is what counts..I expect the extruded aluminum woould not be as good as a tube-and-fin variety.

George

[68blackbird]

I'm going to throw out a wild guess and say the transmission cooler in front of the radiator is not why you are overheating.

Rich

[Old Tin Indian]

I put a Derale stack plate cooler in the car now. It's a quarter of the size of the old 18,000 lb GVW Hayden cooler I had on the front of the radiator (Derale is thicker though). I did put it in the left front corner of the radiator exposing much more of the radiator to cool incoming air. You can watch the needle on the Autometer gauge come right down just with this change.
tony

[68blackbird]

I did every little trick in the book. The only real help for me was the Hayden 2797 Severe Duty clutch fan. Nothing else provided as large a change as that.

Those stack plate coolers sound super efficient.

Rich