[Cliff R]

I'm skeptical about any of that stuff being "finished" here.

Right to start with labor equals time/money. So to take a semi-finished 4340 "H" beam rod and spend what could amount to many hours on it, resizing both ends, checking fit/finish/length, etc would take the price of them much further than it does.. If they get anything at all it's probably just a visual inspection and maybe some "spot checking" on the sizing, etc......IMHO

I've heard rumors of "seconds" out there that didn't or don't make the grade, and that what we may be seeing on Ebay and other sources when the prices look too good to be true. All the sets we've bought and used here have been from one of the Pontiac vendors that support this hobby, and all have been spot on for fit/finish and to date flawless in long term use.

I'm positive that the Eagle "H" beam "knock-offs" are straight off the boat, showing up completely boxed up and still in that "goofy" looking packaging they use over in China.

[Gary H]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

I'm skeptical about any of that stuff being "finished" here.

Right to start with labor equals time/money. So to take a semi-finished 4340 "H" beam rod and spend what could amount to many hours on it, resizing both ends, checking fit/finish/length, etc would take the price of them much further than it does.. If they get anything at all it's probably just a visual inspection and maybe some "spot checking" on the sizing, etc......IMHO

I've heard rumors of "seconds" out there that didn't or don't make the grade, and that what we may be seeing on Ebay and other sources when the prices look too good to be true. All the sets we've bought and used here have been from one of the Pontiac vendors that support this hobby, and all have been spot on for fit/finish and to date flawless in long term use.

I'm positive that the Eagle "H" beam "knock-offs" are straight off the boat, showing up completely boxed up and still in that "goofy" looking packaging they use over in China.

I check every rod for specs regardless of brand. Too critical to the build not to.
Just built two engines using Eagle rods. First set they were a 1/2 thousand (.0005) larger than upper tolerance right out of the box on the big ends. Second set was all over the place, from the minimum to the maximum spec wise. IMO, the RPM rods are the worst finished rods I've seen. Had two sets back to back here that were .010 too small on the big end. That's 10 thousands! After rebuilding had as much money in them as buying a much better rod to start with. Won't ever use them again. Best finished rods I've used yet were Callies, but they're pricey. Generally speaking I use Scat or Eagles for street or mild strip builds and just check them and adjust needed

[GTOGEORGE]

The first set of HP rods I bought were 455 SD rods (new $500), from there I went to Eagles, then Olivers and finally to GRP Aluminums!



GTO George

[ck67goat]

Just an update, I called Molnar and spoke to a helpful individual that provided some more information. The owner once worked for Oliver, then started K1 and Wiseco. They only have 6.625 length H beams available for Pontiac size big end, but could do longer length with a minimum run of 40 rods. They said source of forging is overseas, though claim they tested the material and verified true 4340 grade forged steel. They say they start with better blanks before machining in house to tight tolerances, so seemingly that would justify price difference over Eagle. Priced lower than Crower, though supposedly Crower will be getting a run of 6.8 rods. Supposedly the Molnar rods weigh about 766 grams vs. 830 for the Crowers which makes Molnar somewhat attractive. My engine builder heard of Molnar and agrees good option. I have not picked piston yet, but don't think the shorter piston height would make up the 60 gram difference between the 2 rod choices. At the moment leaning towards the Molnar set. My builder seems to be wondering why I don't go with the Eagles, but feedback here confirms they are good, but not great in comparison to other 2.

[Dragncar]

I did a thread on Molnar stuff awhile back. They have 6.7-6.8 BBC rods, as well as 6.660. Power Adder rods are a bit heavier but will take in excess of 1500HP. They have whatever you need. Scat would be fine though. Better them than Eagle.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

I did a thread on Molnar stuff awhile back. They have 6.7-6.8 BBC rods, as well as 6.660. Power Adder rods are a bit heavier but will take in excess of 1500HP. They have whatever you need. Scat would be fine though. Better them than Eagle.

Not sure why Eagle is so far down on the list, close to 900hp and 8000+rpm seems to me its a good rod

[Dragncar]

I sort of pile on their (eagle) crankshafts in the comparison. For the China cranks, Eagles come up short from everything I have heard.

[Cliff R]

Eagle "H" beams are excellent rods....but like EVERYTHING else in this hobby you have to take the time to make sure they are spot-on for fit and finish. For sure purchase them from someone who specializes in Pontiac parts not some fly-by-night outfit selling "seconds" on Ebay for less money.

The Eagle "knock-offs" are also fine. We've used them in quite a few engines here when they were supplied by the owner with his "spinning assembly" he sourced out from one of the Pontiac vendors. Same logic applies, they need to be checked for fit/finish before using them.

If you want the strongest rods out there under $1000 then get Crower rods, they are just a tad heavier but for sure you will sleep better at night with them in your new engine.........FWIW.......Cliff

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by ck67goat

Just an update, I called Molnar and spoke to a helpful individual that provided some more information. The owner once worked for Oliver, then started K1 and Wiseco.

I was buying Pistons for many years from Wiseco when Molnar was working as a Engineer for Oliver. So Wiseco was around long before Molnar was involved. But maybe Wiseco sold out to Molner in the last couple of years.

But my point is Molner did NOT start Wiseco Pistons. He did start K1 and His present company though.

That statement is kind of like the Jack Roush Guys claiming that they were a part of the Ford Motor Company. Not True.
The employees paycheck came from Roush. Ford mught have been contracting out work to Roush Employees who worked in a Ford Building
(Like out SVT Building ot the Ford GT Build Building) but their paychecks came from Roush, as did insurance, tax Statements, etc.

Most times an "other Company" employee was trying to get Vortech Superchargers or a company like that to give them a "FORD" price discount.

Tom V.

I had a database that gave me the name of every Ford Employee in the world and if the name was not in there they did not work for Ford specifically.
I would take that Wiseco info with some additional Company Research required.

[ck67goat]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

I was buying Pistons for many years from Wiseco when Molnar was working as a Engineer for Oliver. So Wiseco was around long before Molnar was involved. But maybe Wiseco sold out to Molner in the last couple of years.

But my point is Molner did NOT start Wiseco Pistons. He did start K1 and His present company though.

That statement is kind of like the Jack Roush Guys claiming that they were a part of the Ford Motor Company. Not True.
The employees paycheck came from Roush. Ford mught have been contracting out work to Roush Employees who worked in a Ford Building
(Like out SVT Building ot the Ford GT Build Building) but their paychecks came from Roush, as did insurance, tax Statements, etc.

Most times an "other Company" employee was trying to get Vortech Superchargers or a company like that to give them a "FORD" price discount.

Tom V.

I had a database that gave me the name of every Ford Employee in the world and if the name was not in there they did not work for Ford specifically.
I would take that Wiseco info with some additional Company Research required.

Sorry - had my notes crossed - took them quickly while focusing on the rod info itself. Correct - started K1, not Wiseco and then sold off K1 and started Molnar in the past 5 years. Thanks for the correction.

[Dragncar]

Cliff, you have built way more engines than myself. But I have to disagree with the strongest rod for under 1000$ as the Crower forged. No one in their right mind runs a Crower forged steel rod on 2000 HP BBCs on NO2. They do with the Molnar Power Adder Rods.
Tom let me know he has a couple of the Street Outlaw guys running his rotating assembly's. And the results upon tear down is the rod bearings looked perfect. Hard to beat a billet 4340 H beam rod, designed by a actual connecting rod engineer/designer with a greater cross section than any Eagle/Scat with their own special rod bolts that have a interference fit in the threads but mate perfectly when torqued down.
The basic Molnar H beam is a step above Eagle/Scat as they have the better cross section. The Power Adder rod takes it a step above that. And still lighter than the Crowers.
With Molnar there is no need to take on the extra expense if one has a big end or small end slightly out of spec. Molnar will send out a call tag and replace them on their own dime. And that just does not really happen.
The regular Molnar rod is good on 1000HP engines and then some.
The Power Adder Rod is under 800$. So, its Molnar.

[Cliff R]

"Cliff, you have built way more engines than myself. But I have to disagree with the strongest rod for under 1000$ as the Crower forged."

Never heard of them but just figured their rods were USA finished "H" beams and on par with Eagle rods or maybe a tad better, at least the Pontiac offerings, at least by glancing at what they had on the website.......Cliff

[ck67goat]

So re-opening this thread for reference. I wound up choosing RaceTec/AutoTec pistons for this application since they were able to custom make both the bore size and the dish cc for this application at a reasonable cost. With these pistons, we will be using a standard 6.625 length rod. We went to order rods and seemingly everyone is on back order except for Crower. Even Summit was listing H beam assorted rods on backorder. My builder did find that Howard's Racing has available and they are made in the USA. Can't find too much about Howard's online other than they have been around a while - odd that I have never heard of them before and did not consider them in the bottom end build. Anyone else used their rods? They are listed as considerably lighter than Crower Sportsman and cost a bit less as well.