[Probird]

Originally Posted by Mark G

I made 810 hp with those heads 505 no tuning nothing ran 9.40 @ 3260 lbs my new heads are a SD one of a kind .. Best of Luck ..

Thanks Mark....As of now the best I've been with those heads is 9.22 @ 3275. That was with a 1050 on alcohol. I put a 1250 on it and it picked up another .03 in the 1/8th. My engine is a bit bigger though 529". They are a pretty good set of standard port heads.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Mike Davis

Heads are a small part of combo. I have a small CID (446) stock block, 341 CFM Eheads, small cam (270@.050), 11.25 comp, puny Carter AFB carbs that is in the 770HP range.

Coool, what kind of intake are you running ? I like engines that are not like everyone else's. 445 block or 400 ?

[Dragncar]

You bring it all on yourself George. Think you can throw shade on someone and they are supposed to take it. Rather than take it I will give it back, just because its you.
What I think happens is you drunk post a lot. Pop off after you have had a few pops. Get what you get.
If I were you, short stuff I would keep my comments to myself. Runts making pep pee cracks is not a good look.
You had better keep your car roots blown. If you put the right turbos on it, from the way it looks it would do a clockwise roll on its side about the 100' mark.
Get that suspension fixed.
All you had to do is say what in your mind makes alcohol a good fuel for bracket racing and I would have just said "thanks".

[Probird]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Can you explain the , if your serious about bracket racing methanol comment. Not sure I understand.

I'm guessing there aren't many bracket racers in your area running alcohol?

Methanol is a very consistent fuel. I do watch the weather to make dial in decisions but the only part of the weather that seems to make a difference is humidity. I could predict the car pretty well when I ran gas but you really had to stay on top of weather conditions. In a race that would last from late morning(10:00am) to late into the evening(1:00am) there could be a change in dial of as much as .07. With alcohol the car may vary at most .015 and that is late in the evening when humidity gets above about 75%. My car runs the same et's in 70 degree weather as it does in 95 degree weather. That's just one advantage though. It makes more torque also.

Another is cool water temps. I run a primer plus system which injects gas into the plenum to warm up the car and keep heat in it. Between the primer plus and making the pass on alcohol I can make sure I go into the water box at 160 every time no matter if there is 10 minutes between passes or 2 hours between passes. You know that consistency comes from doing everything the same every pass. Alcohol makes every part of the pass that has to do with the engine more consistent. One example: With Norwalk being a 1/4 mile track, that means a lot of starting and stopping driving to the staging lanes, a long trip back to the pits and round robin after 3rd round. Usually the temps are in the low 90's so the gas cars struggle with maintaining water temps. When they start doing the round robin rounds if I go into the water box at 160, I make the pass and go off the track at 170. If I were to drive back on alcohol the 1/2 mile to the staging lanes to cool, I would probably be at 150 when I got back. I turn on the gas system to keep a little heat in the water so I'm at 160 when they are ready for the next round 10-15 minutes later. I keep my primer system fat so it doesn't gain much heat on the drive back. If I need it to gain heat quick I have a lean out valve I can open to lean it out. It just makes dialing the car way easier than on gas.

I would bet 85% of the good bracket racers around here are on alcohol. And I bet at the Million there is at least that percentage or more. I know there aren't many tracks where you are but you should make the trip to Vegas for the Spring Fling Million. It would be an eye opening experience. That's the only big race I can think of anywhere close to where you are. There are big money races all over around here. You could hit one every weekend if you wanted.

As far as the corrosion deal goes, most of that is an old wives tale. I never get any kind of corrosion. I keep alcohol in the car 365 days a year. I do take the carb off in the winter. I run top lube in the oil. That keeps any corrosion problem at bay. It is harder on the cylinder walls though, I'll give you that. I have to change an accelerator pump once in a while at the beginning of the season after it dries out. If the carb is right there is no milking of the oil and any moisture in the oil is taken out with a vacuum pump.

I ran gas for years. Now I've run alky for years. I would NEVER go back to gas. There are just too many advantages that outweigh the few disadvantages.

[Mike Davis]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Coool, what kind of intake are you running ? I like engines that are not like everyone else's. 445 block or 400 ?

I like the 421/428 blocks.
4.185 Bore, 4.050 stroke, Eheads flow 341@.700
Intake is a Wenzler early style, Flat 1/4 plate for a top, carbs are 750CFM Carter AFB's.
Twist it to 7100/7200 RPM.

[455firebird1969]

Good post Probird!

Can you discuss the cost to switch over, the cost of methanol, in addition to availability.

Originally Posted by Probird

I'm guessing there aren't many bracket racers in your area running alcohol?

Methanol is a very consistent fuel. I do watch the weather to make dial in decisions but the only part of the weather that seems to make a difference is humidity. I could predict the car pretty well when I ran gas but you really had to stay on top of weather conditions. In a race that would last from late morning(10:00am) to late into the evening(1:00am) there could be a change in dial of as much as .07. With alcohol the car may vary at most .015 and that is late in the evening when humidity gets above about 75%. My car runs the same et's in 70 degree weather as it does in 95 degree weather. That's just one advantage though. It makes more torque also.

Another is cool water temps. I run a primer plus system which injects gas into the plenum to warm up the car and keep heat in it. Between the primer plus and making the pass on alcohol I can make sure I go into the water box at 160 every time no matter if there is 10 minutes between passes or 2 hours between passes. You know that consistency comes from doing everything the same every pass. Alcohol makes every part of the pass that has to do with the engine more consistent. One example: With Norwalk being a 1/4 mile track, that means a lot of starting and stopping driving to the staging lanes, a long trip back to the pits and round robin after 3rd round. Usually the temps are in the low 90's so the gas cars struggle with maintaining water temps. When they start doing the round robin rounds if I go into the water box at 160, I make the pass and go off the track at 170. If I were to drive back on alcohol the 1/2 mile to the staging lanes to cool, I would probably be at 150 when I got back. I turn on the gas system to keep a little heat in the water so I'm at 160 when they are ready for the next round 10-15 minutes later. I keep my primer system fat so it doesn't gain much heat on the drive back. If I need it to gain heat quick I have a lean out valve I can open to lean it out. It just makes dialing the car way easier than on gas.

I would bet 85% of the good bracket racers around here are on alcohol. And I bet at the Million there is at least that percentage or more. I know there aren't many tracks where you are but you should make the trip to Vegas for the Spring Fling Million. It would be an eye opening experience. That's the only big race I can think of anywhere close to where you are. There are big money races all over around here. You could hit one every weekend if you wanted.

As far as the corrosion deal goes, most of that is an old wives tale. I never get any kind of corrosion. I keep alcohol in the car 365 days a year. I do take the carb off in the winter. I run top lube in the oil. That keeps any corrosion problem at bay. It is harder on the cylinder walls though, I'll give you that. I have to change an accelerator pump once in a while at the beginning of the season after it dries out. If the carb is right there is no milking of the oil and any moisture in the oil is taken out with a vacuum pump.

I ran gas for years. Now I've run alky for years. I would NEVER go back to gas. There are just too many advantages that outweigh the few disadvantages.

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by 455firebird1969

Good post Probird!

Can you discuss the cost to switch over, the cost of methanol, in addition to availability.

Yes that was a good post, said it better the I could have!
I do however get corrosion in my carbs and my foam in my fuel cell doesn’t like the alky!


GTO George

[johnta1]

George, I took the foam out a long time ago. Possibly if you had a foam made for alky it would be OK. Plus the foam wouldn't let it flow fast enough into the fittings.


I also changed a long time ago from carbs to mechanical injection, lots better and no worries about carb pieces.
(have to have alcohol compatible parts for alky)





And I agree with Rick on all the attributes of alcohol.
More power and more consistent, what more do you need?
(and lot cheaper!)

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

You bring it all on yourself George. Think you can throw shade on someone and they are supposed to take it. Rather than take it I will give it back, just because its you.
What I think happens is you drunk post a lot. Pop off after you have had a few pops. Get what you get.
If I were you, short stuff I would keep my comments to myself. Runts making pep pee cracks is not a good look.
You had better keep your car roots blown. If you put the right turbos on it, from the way it looks it would do a clockwise roll on its side about the 100' mark.
Get that suspension fixed.
All you had to do is say what in your mind makes alcohol a good fuel for bracket racing and I would have just said "thanks".

Didn't understand why an experience bracket racer like you doesnt know the benefits of running alcohol and then you answered your own question? Not very intelligent......but whatever! LOL! You ever see turbo car winning a bracket race or top sportsman race, there are reasons why.........ill keep my roots blower, I like to win and go quick!


GTO George

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by johnta1

George, I took the foam out a long time ago. Possibly if you had a foam made for alky it would be OK. Plus the foam wouldn't let it flow fast enough into the fittings.


I also changed a long time ago from carbs to mechanical injection, lots better and no worries about carb pieces.
(have to have alcohol compatible parts for alky)

Im not changing to mechanical injection and I already have the alky foam in it, I don't have it covering in fuel cell outlet. I just clean my carbs if its been sitting long.....WD40 a alky racers friend!


GTO George

[johnta1]

Like Rick, I run an additive, never a problem.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

Didn't understand why an experience bracket racer like you doesnt know the benefits of running alcohol and then you answered your own question? Not very intelligent......but whatever! LOL! You ever see turbo car winning a bracket race or top sportsman race, there are reasons why.........ill keep my roots blower, I like to win and go quick!


GTO George

George, YOU calling using the term "Not very intelligent" to pretty much anyone around here is funny, really funny.
I am not the guy who started threads about tire pressure and should I degree my cam ? You are.
I know a few people who run it. Know basic things like its very high octane, cools the engine, takes more of it than gas, can milk your oil, has corrosion issues and heard guys hint is was good for bracket racing but never took it any further.
Probird did what you can not. Give a detailed, respectful and intelligent answer to a question. In other words, a long post and one that is full experience and knowledge.
Calling you the "Black Hole" of Pontiac knowledge would be a compliment because it would be inferring that you had some to begin with. But I can't.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Probird

I'm guessing there aren't many bracket racers in your area running alcohol?

Methanol is a very consistent fuel. I do watch the weather to make dial in decisions but the only part of the weather that seems to make a difference is humidity. I could predict the car pretty well when I ran gas but you really had to stay on top of weather conditions. In a race that would last from late morning(10:00am) to late into the evening(1:00am) there could be a change in dial of as much as .07. With alcohol the car may vary at most .015 and that is late in the evening when humidity gets above about 75%. My car runs the same et's in 70 degree weather as it does in 95 degree weather. That's just one advantage though. It makes more torque also.

Another is cool water temps. I run a primer plus system which injects gas into the plenum to warm up the car and keep heat in it. Between the primer plus and making the pass on alcohol I can make sure I go into the water box at 160 every time no matter if there is 10 minutes between passes or 2 hours between passes. You know that consistency comes from doing everything the same every pass. Alcohol makes every part of the pass that has to do with the engine more consistent. One example: With Norwalk being a 1/4 mile track, that means a lot of starting and stopping driving to the staging lanes, a long trip back to the pits and round robin after 3rd round. Usually the temps are in the low 90's so the gas cars struggle with maintaining water temps. When they start doing the round robin rounds if I go into the water box at 160, I make the pass and go off the track at 170. If I were to drive back on alcohol the 1/2 mile to the staging lanes to cool, I would probably be at 150 when I got back. I turn on the gas system to keep a little heat in the water so I'm at 160 when they are ready for the next round 10-15 minutes later. I keep my primer system fat so it doesn't gain much heat on the drive back. If I need it to gain heat quick I have a lean out valve I can open to lean it out. It just makes dialing the car way easier than on gas.

I would bet 85% of the good bracket racers around here are on alcohol. And I bet at the Million there is at least that percentage or more. I know there aren't many tracks where you are but you should make the trip to Vegas for the Spring Fling Million. It would be an eye opening experience. That's the only big race I can think of anywhere close to where you are. There are big money races all over around here. You could hit one every weekend if you wanted.

As far as the corrosion deal goes, most of that is an old wives tale. I never get any kind of corrosion. I keep alcohol in the car 365 days a year. I do take the carb off in the winter. I run top lube in the oil. That keeps any corrosion problem at bay. It is harder on the cylinder walls though, I'll give you that. I have to change an accelerator pump once in a while at the beginning of the season after it dries out. If the carb is right there is no milking of the oil and any moisture in the oil is taken out with a vacuum pump.

I ran gas for years. Now I've run alky for years. I would NEVER go back to gas. There are just too many advantages that outweigh the few disadvantages.

Thanks a lot Probird, I learned something and others did too with that post. Kind of what this forum is supposed to be about.

[Probird]

Originally Posted by 455firebird1969

Good post Probird!

Can you discuss the cost to switch over, the cost of methanol, in addition to availability.

When I switched over I of course had to buy a new fuel pump. You can't go wrong with too big. I went to an Aeromotive A2000 It's plenty for what I'm doing. It has an internal bypass that bypasses fuel back into the fuel cell. Then I ran -10 an fuel line from the fuel pump to a big port Holley regulator. I reused my -6 line going to the fuel bowls. That was basically it. You don't need the primer plus system but I highly recommend it. It pays for itself in the first year by cutting the fuel usage in half trying to warm the car up and makes it easier to start. It also helps keep the oil changes on the same schedule you would when running gas, since you are running gas most of the time, and only use the alcohol system when making a pass. I've never had any availability issues. Usually a racer will sell it. Just have to ask around. It's usually readily available.

So basically:

Fuel pump- $485
Fuel line and fittings - $150
Big port Regulator- $110
Primer Plus w/ 1 gallon fuel cell - $560
Alky carb - depends if new or used $300 - $1200
If you have a carb you want converted over send it to Ken Jones Performance. Usually about $650 I think
Barrel of alcohol- $140
Bottle of top lube - $10

A vacuum pump is also a good idea from my experience.

[GTOGEORGE]

Dragncar,
Just to clear things up!

Originally Posted by Probird View Post
"If your serious about bracket racing use methanol."

Dragncar quote "Can you explain the , if your serious about bracket racing methanol comment. Not sure I understand."

So Mr. Bracket Racer (Dragncar) this is what I commented on

Originally Posted by Dragncar View Post
Can you explain the , if your serious about bracket racing methanol comment. Not sure I understand.

GTO George Quote "......alcohol.....Bracket Racing....you don’t have a clue huh!"
I figured there is no way possible you could not know the benefits of running Alcohol when you have BIG TIME bracket racer and have Bracket Raced as long as you have.......Seriously! Not once in the above post did you ask about the NON- benefits of using alcohol in a race car. If you did I would have been the first to mention a few things (I hate long posts) to answer. so even though a long time ago I wasn't running alky but my friend did so i watched and listen......obviously you didn't! I was trying to give you a little credit....i quess I shouldn't have......sorry!


GTO George

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by Probird

When I switched over I of course had to buy a new fuel pump. You can't go wrong with too big. I went to an Aeromotive A2000 It's plenty for what I'm doing. It has an internal bypass that bypasses fuel back into the fuel cell. Then I ran -10 an fuel line from the fuel pump to a big port Holley regulator. I reused my -6 line going to the fuel bowls. That was basically it. You don't need the primer plus system but I highly recommend it. It pays for itself in the first year by cutting the fuel usage in half trying to warm the car up and makes it easier to start. It also helps keep the oil changes on the same schedule you would when running gas, since you are running gas most of the time, and only use the alcohol system when making a pass. I've never had any availability issues. Usually a racer will sell it. Just have to ask around. It's usually readily available.

So basically:

Fuel pump- $485
Fuel line and fittings - $150
Big port Regulator- $110
Primer Plus w/ 1 gallon fuel cell - $560
Alky carb - depends if new or used $300 - $1200
If you have a carb you want converted over send it to Ken Jones Performance. Usually about $650 I think
Barrel of alcohol- $140
Bottle of top lube - $10

A vacuum pump is also a good idea from my experience.

I've never had a problem starting my car or with water in the oil.....what oil do you use? Try Brad Penn its the BEST and is a must if you are running alcohol! I agree bigger is always better when running alky! Im running no.8's to my Dominators.


GTO George

[69Goat1]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

I've never had a problem starting my car or with water in the oil.....what oil do you use? Try Brad Penn its the BEST and is a must if you are running alcohol! I agree bigger is always better when running alky! Im running no.8's to my Dominators.


GTO George

Roots blown cars start very easily...at least that has been my experience...

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by Probird

If I need it to gain heat quick I have a lean out valve I can open to lean it out.

So Probird.
Ive never had a leanout valve on my engine would I install it before the blower or in the intake to lean it out.....just curious!
Also this is the Fuel Additive I use, i didn't have luck with top lube so I tried something else...........Pro Blends alcohol lube works great (Pro Blend 8400 Alcohol Lube)!


GTO George

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

I've never had a problem starting my car or with water in the oil.....what oil do you use? Try Brad Penn its the BEST and is a must if you are running alcohol! I agree bigger is always better when running alky! Im running no.8's to my Dominators.


GTO George

100% agree on Brad Penn oil... I ran it in the funny and never had an issue.. buddy of mine would buy it but the pallet for his pro mod.. I just bought it from him...

[jimmy daniel]

Back when I bracket raced I Loved alcohol. Has a Rupert carb and ran Brad Penn oil. I never had an issue and it was dead on consistent. I even won a super Gas and Super Street div 2 race on alcohol. Hardly anybody uses it on throttle stop racing but I did for years.