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#41
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I like the Iris wheels vs. black wheels Thanks for posting Pontiac plant and Kansas plant used the "dash - " between upper and lower body colors (P-P) on the 65 cowl tags. |
#42
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60sstuff mentioned in post #1 that it stopped sometime late in the 65 production year. Maybe your example will help determine a cut-off point. Thanks for sharing those pics with us Aluminum Front Drums ! ! ! goodness gracious Last edited by Baron Von Zeppelin; 09-11-2020 at 01:55 AM. |
#43
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So I'll stand by my original interpretation that Code 484 on a '64 KC/Balt doc should mean Spare Tire Cover alone with neither the Deluxe Wheel Covers or the Custom Wheel Covers having been optioned. |
#44
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It is included in the Sunfire thread, mine has a tagged radiator that is a 2"x17.5" 3 core radiator, but it could have been swapped out at some point, as this car was raced heavily
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#45
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This is another side-track on my Option #461 #464 /465 question.
2 Baltimore Cars That John V. nailed using his prior research. I was just trying to discern if they referred to a wheelcover or not - initially. Quote:
It would be a real mess of a car on the breakdown We need to find John V's old research article and make it a Sticky Thread up top. On this first one 64 GTO Convertible - Gulfstream Aqua 3x2 / 4spd / 3.55 (F) / 4 Core Radiator (58) Dec 11, 1963 I have the PHS , Customer Invoice , Cowl Tag & a Fisher Body Mini-Sheet The invoice shows it was equipped with the Day/Nite Mirror and Tinted Windshield. Just like John deciphered. But no option codes listed to match up with PHS - and they would have been wrong anyway (Baltimore PHS Codes) - which would have woken me up faster. Mini-Sheet also backs up John's work Its a rarity to have a customer invoice or window sticker on most cars, so the mini-sheet does help to an extent to cross-check a Baltimore/KC car. And the Baltimore cowl tag doesn't list out any Fisher Codes to help with anything. Group 1 W - Tinted Windshield (bingo) O - Mirror Group (bingo) Group 2 L - Manual Trans (check) G - Console (check) P - Back Up Lamps (check) Group 3 blank Group 4 blank Group 5 N - GTO (check) Great work John, it must have taken a lot of Balti/KC window stickers and other scarce data to convert all those wacky Balti/KC codes into Regular Sales Codes |
#46
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[Side Track ]
And this is the other Baltimore Car with Option #461 #464 / 465 These aren't rare options or anything of course - its just what got me going in this direction. 64 GTO Hdtp - Saddle Bronze 4bbl / 4spd / 3.23 (K) / 3 Core Radiator (57) ?? Jan 23, 1964 Only have PHS and Fisher Mini-Sheet for this one. I could really make a mess out of this one trying to breakdown the PHS But the Mini-Sheet does show it was Tinted Windshield 1W (532) , whereas the PHS doesn't reflect 532. This one didn't get the Mirror Group Package to reflect anything about the Interior Day/Nite Mirror - but think we can trust John's assessment from previous example. 1W - Tinted Windshield (bingo) 2L - Manual Trans 2P - Back Up Lamps 3K - Dome Reading/Courtesy Lamps 5N - GTO 5W - Front Seatbelts Posting these examples in case the docs help John in any form with data mining. Last edited by Baron Von Zeppelin; 09-11-2020 at 01:30 PM. |
#47
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1964 Pontiac Color And Trim Chart showing the wheel colors for the Tempest/LeMans.
Mike
__________________
1959-1980 Pontiac Window Sticker Reproductions : http://www.pontiacwindowstickers.com My Bio: I am currently writing articles for POCI's Smoke Signals magazine and enjoy promoting and discussing the history of the Pontiac Motor Division. |
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#48
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1964 wheel colors for two-tone paint schemes.
__________________
1959-1980 Pontiac Window Sticker Reproductions : http://www.pontiacwindowstickers.com My Bio: I am currently writing articles for POCI's Smoke Signals magazine and enjoy promoting and discussing the history of the Pontiac Motor Division. |
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MikeNoun For This Useful Post: | ||
#49
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Here's pics of a spare off a 64 tempest wagon. Code near valve stem is A. Wheel color is a bluish/teal. Looked same or similar to the body color.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
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You never know what I might have that you are looking for. EMAIL me. Also check out my other ads here on PY. Just click on user name to view other ads. USPS Money Orders or Wal-Mart to Wal-Mart money gram wire transfer -preferred payments. If Payment doesn't show up in 3-4 days, I move on to the next person that wants it. Serious Inquiries Only - Shipping Isn't Free. |
#50
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Do you have the same data for 1965 that you could share , too ? |
#51
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All the 14x6 plain steel wheels in 64 65 66 were stamped A . So its an original I don't know if the "A" stamp continued past 66 ... might have |
#52
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The 67 LeMans black steel wheels that I have are stamped A3.
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
__________________
You never know what I might have that you are looking for. EMAIL me. Also check out my other ads here on PY. Just click on user name to view other ads. USPS Money Orders or Wal-Mart to Wal-Mart money gram wire transfer -preferred payments. If Payment doesn't show up in 3-4 days, I move on to the next person that wants it. Serious Inquiries Only - Shipping Isn't Free. |
#53
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Thank You Mr. Mike Noun.
This thread was getting a little chaotic. You certainly cleared up things with those “two” charts. Chris.
__________________
1) 65 GTO Survivor. 43,440 Original Miles. “Factory” Mayfair Maize Paint with Black Pinstripe, Black Cordova Top, Black Interior, OEM Numbers Matching Powertrain. Purchased from the Lady that bought it new. Baltimore Built (11A). 2) 66 GTO Survivor. “Factory” Cameo Ivory Paint with Red Pinstripe, Red Interior. OEM Numbers Matching Powertrain. Tri-Power (OEM Vacuum Linkage), Automatic "YR" code (1759 Produced). Fremont Built (01B), with the Rare 614 Option. |
#54
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Below photos show what is stamped on my car in signature. CT
__________________
1) 65 GTO Survivor. 43,440 Original Miles. “Factory” Mayfair Maize Paint with Black Pinstripe, Black Cordova Top, Black Interior, OEM Numbers Matching Powertrain. Purchased from the Lady that bought it new. Baltimore Built (11A). 2) 66 GTO Survivor. “Factory” Cameo Ivory Paint with Red Pinstripe, Red Interior. OEM Numbers Matching Powertrain. Tri-Power (OEM Vacuum Linkage), Automatic "YR" code (1759 Produced). Fremont Built (01B), with the Rare 614 Option. |
#55
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Chris, I agree on the 6 or 9 for 65, whichever....
"Bill"! |
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#56
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I shouldn't have made that post. Can only recall seeing A , 6A , 3A seemed like there was always an A somewhere. But have to admit it was a very light observation back then, nobody cared about plain steel wheels anyway and couldn't sell them for enough worth finding a good box to ship them. But they've gained a LOT more popularity in the past 10-15 years. sorry about the mis-information and thanks for the correction. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Baron Von Zeppelin For This Useful Post: | ||
#57
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I don't have the same chart for 1965's, but I have the 1965 paint codes and paint formulas (body, interior, wheels, etc).
__________________
1959-1980 Pontiac Window Sticker Reproductions : http://www.pontiacwindowstickers.com My Bio: I am currently writing articles for POCI's Smoke Signals magazine and enjoy promoting and discussing the history of the Pontiac Motor Division. |
#58
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Mike, very cool to see. Where did PMD publish those charts?
But we still have some '64 exceptions to consider. 1. FFA, 11/26 Pontiac Plant GTO Post Coupe. No Wheel Covers, Red Line Tires. Code E Wheel Color expected, Code A Wheel Color installed instead. 2. SSA, 11/21 Fremont Plant GTO Hardtop. No Wheel Covers, Red Line Tires. Code Y Wheel Color expected, Code A Wheel Color installed instead. 3. Q1A, 12/10 Balt Plant GTO Convertible. No Wheel Covers, Red Line Tires. Code U Wheel Color expected, Code A Wheel Color installed instead. 4. S1A, 12/9 Balt Plant GTO Convertible. No Wheel Covers, Whitewall Tires. Code Y Wheel Color expected, Code A Wheel Color installed instead. The above are early builds. But lest we think PMD was not mounting any 7.50x14 tires on non-Black Wheels early in production for whatever reason, such as a belief that GTO production would be too low to justify the use of the non-Black Color Wheels, consider the following build: 5. QQU, 11/14 Pontiac Plant GTO Hardtop. No Wheel Covers, Whitewall Tires. Earlier than any of the above 4, with the expected Code U Gulfstream Aqua Wheels and 7.50x14 Whitewalls mounted. The next examples got the expected Wheel Color but the Wheel Color Code does not conform with the Charts posted by Mike Noun. So far, whenever the Pontiac Plant installed non-Black Wheels, it appears they used the "correct" letter Codes defined in the Charts. But the satellite Plants seemed to use the "correct" code at times, other times, the Wheel Color Code used the Paint code for that color instead. 6. SSS, 1/24 Balt Plant GTO Hardtop. No Wheel Covers, Whitewall Tires. Code Y expected for Saddle Wheel Color, Code S coded instead. Example of a different Wheel Color Code being used at Balt in lieu of the PMD published code for Saddle Color Wheels. 7. QQQ, 7/16 Balt Plant Lemans. No Wheel Covers, Whitewall Tires. Code U expected for Gulfstream Aqua Wheel Color, Code Q coded instead. Example of a different Wheel Color Code being used at Balt in lieu of the PMD published code for Gulfstream Aqua Color Wheels. And I'll throw the next two on this list because they are examples of Fremont builds with the "correct" code used for Saddle Wheel Color and Singapore Gold Wheel Color respectively. 8. S7Y, 2/13 Fremont Plant Lemans Convertible. No Wheel Covers, 7.00x14 Whitewall Tires. "Correct" Code Y used for Saddle Wheels. 9. RRT, 5/14 Fremont Plant GTO Hardtop. No Wheel Covers, Whitewall Tires. "Correct" Code T used for Singapore Gold Wheels. This last example I reported earlier in the thread as being a PPQ code from Fremont. After taking another look at the PHS document, I have revised the code to PPU, the Code U being "correct" according to the Chart. 10. PPU, 3/13 Fremont Plant GTO Hardtop. No Wheel Covers, Red Line Tires. "Correct" Code U used for Gulfstream Aqua Wheels. So for now, it looks like there are many early year builds that we would have expected a Color Wheel but got Black Wheels instead. And at least at the Pontiac Plant, there is at least one early GTO example that did get Gulfstream Aqua Wheels as expected. It also looks like the Balt Plant used Code S for Saddle Wheels and Code Q for Gulfstream Aqua Wheels instead of the PMD "correct" codes of Code Y and Code U. Balt and KC were Chevy controlled rather than BOP controlled which may explain the coding difference. However, the only example I could find from KC was a 3/27 FFE GTO Hardtop, "correct" Code E used to identify the Yorktown Blue Wheel Color. Lots of combinations and Codes not seen yet from each of the Plants. The Charts tell us what we SHOULD expect. But with the exceptions already noted, still plenty of research needed before drawing definitive conclusions, especially when hoping to explain exceptions. It would be such a boon to those of us that love to uncover this sort of detail if the PHS records were open for research. Instead of a handful of PHS records to review, there could be tens of thousands. Wishful thinking I guess. |
#59
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John V., this was from an original foldout chart from the 1964 dealer sales album dated Nov 1st, 1963. There are two charts, both large format, and the printing is very small. They show a matrix of all available color/trim combinations. One chart covers the Tempest/LeMans/Catalina, the other Star Chief/Bonneville/Grand Prix. These are quite large, but the photos I took were not clear, so I transcribed the wheel codes section of the Tempest/LeMans/Catalina chart over to a spreadsheet. I found these in the Pontiac-Oakland Museum. Attached is a small pic of one of the charts to show how detailed and comprehensive they are.
__________________
1959-1980 Pontiac Window Sticker Reproductions : http://www.pontiacwindowstickers.com My Bio: I am currently writing articles for POCI's Smoke Signals magazine and enjoy promoting and discussing the history of the Pontiac Motor Division. |
#60
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the "Red Lines Matter" would have been a cool new factoid for the history books, but maybe it won't really work out overall. The exceptions are probably/mostly customer spec situations. I'm thinking a default to black "A" wheel due to on-hand shortage may not have shown up on the paperwork - especially on the trim tag stamping. Since the trim tag was stamped and installed before the build ever got wheels underneath it. |
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