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THE LOBBY A gathering place. Introductions, sports, showin' off your ride, birthday-anniversary-milestone, achievements, family oriented humor. |
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#41
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It falls out of the "musclecar" topic of this thread, but I learn a bit more about the Mustang Ecoboost model. You can option the high performance 2,7 with better turbo setup over base. You can get basically the GT suspension as an option. The 2.7 gives appx. 150lb weight savings over GT and a near 50/50 weight distribution at 52/48. 13.5 sec. 1/4 mile. Rated 27mpg hwy which probably means 25 real world hwy. Overall, a compromise kind of vehicle, but get one with the manual tranny and it sounds like fun that I could enjoy.
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72 Bird |
#42
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I always find these debates humorous. Whether it's brand loyalty, body style, advertising, available options or price point, Dodge is obviously doing something right. For those that like to compare the Challenger to the Camaro or Mustang....you do understand these are completely different platforms designed for different purposes? Complaining that the Dodge doesn't handle as well as the Camaro makes about as much sense as complaining that a 1 ton truck doesn't handle as well as a Camaro. While that's an extreme comparison it's no less valid. The pony cars have almost inherently out handled the larger muscle cars from day one. I've owned plenty of versions of both and can certainly respect each for their designed attributes. It never crossed my mind to expect my 78 Malibu Landau to handle as well as my 78 WS6 T/A.
Except for perhaps some limited versions, I don't think Dodge has ever made the claim the Challenger will handle with the pony cars. The only car GM had recently that would be a fair comparison for handling is the 2004+ GTO. But for 2022???? GM has always been conservative and short on vision. For those not familiar just go check out what it took to get the 64 GTO "approved". The 2004 GTO was more along the lines of a LeMans. While the drivetrain and suspension were decent for the time, the body was a disgrace. They'll surprise you now and then, but Chevy has typically been a bland car. I think of them along the same lines as buying store brand cheap crap. Especially if we're talking about 60s-80s. Stripped down hollow shells. All current GM brands are pretty much rebadged cookie cutter crap with a bunch of electronics thrown in that you "can't live without". The only thing I can take my hat off to that GM has done in the last 20 odd years is the LSX motor. I'll give them credit for that one. It's a versatile and solid platform of an engine. |
#43
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You probably never looked at the G8's, the CTSV's, the Chevrolet SS or some of the newer Cadillacs CT4, CT5 or CT6. There are some cool and surprisingly capable versions of these cars, like the V Sport versions with a twin turbo 3.0 V6. Yes, GM is conservative, and their advertising of performance cars is terrible, but the cars are pretty decent. The CT5 Blackwing is incredible.
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#44
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The 2.7L Ecoboost is in the F150 - that's a V6. Not available in the Mustang.
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keith k 70 Trans Am RA III / T400 / Lucerne Blue / Bright Blue 70 Trans Am RA III / M20 / Lucerne Blue / Sandalwood 70 Formula RA III / M21 / Lucerne Blue / Bright Blue |
#45
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I had actually forgotten about the G8. I'll agree it was a competent vehicle. Especially the GXP. The Chevy SS only confirms how bland of a car that Chevy is capable of putting out. It looked like every other car on the lot. And once more, where are those cars for 2022? Poor management and marketing decisions killed them both. The Dodge offerings prove there's a strong market for the mid sized "muscle cars". Price point on those Cadillacs you mentioned? I'm sure it's a heck of a lot more than you'll pay for the Dodge. I also don't associate the Cadillac with a muscle car. Sport coupe or sedan maybe. That opens up into an entirely different sector that to me would include BMW, Mercedes, etc. Don't get me wrong. I've never owned a Dodge. Primarily Pontiacs and a couple of Chevys. But if I were to buy a new car in 2022 it wouldn't be from GM.
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#46
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Yes, my bad, I meant 2.3 Mustang version. I have 2.7 imprinted in my brain from having the F150..... duh..........
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72 Bird |
#47
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You could not pay me enough to own an electronic nightmare.... I mean Cadillac.. Late model Cadillacs are grossly overpriced and have a cheap plasticky feel..... 4 door old man car...Not impressed......
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Current Pontiacs - 1973 Formula SD455 - #'s auto orig paint 1972 Trans Am - 4 speed orig paint 1974 Formula 400 - Ram Air automatic 1966 2+2 convertible - 421 4bbl automatic 1967 Grand Prix - 4 speed orig paint 1967 GTO - 4 speed orig paint 35k orig miles Last edited by 71GP76TA; 04-13-2022 at 09:11 PM. |
#48
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Current Pontiacs - 1973 Formula SD455 - #'s auto orig paint 1972 Trans Am - 4 speed orig paint 1974 Formula 400 - Ram Air automatic 1966 2+2 convertible - 421 4bbl automatic 1967 Grand Prix - 4 speed orig paint 1967 GTO - 4 speed orig paint 35k orig miles |
#49
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Long term reliability shows your Mopar products far below that of Cadilllac. |
#50
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The more precise handling vehicles are for people who actually enjoy driving the cars, not sitting at a C&C event. |
#51
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The Challenger leads sales because it is a larger, more family friendly car. If it's more important to you to have people access the back seat, you buy the Challenger. For those that enjoy a driving a big HP car that handles really well, the Challenger is your last choice. |
#52
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You do realize that the current Camaro is on a different platform than the 14, don't you? Compare the handling of a current ZL1 to your 21 widebody and get back to me. |
#53
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From my personal experience,”fact”. But that doesn’t mean much, when we’re speaking of hundreds of thousands.
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#54
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How 'bout 1st quarter sales 2022? This was published 4/5/22 by StellPower online news site. https://www.stellpower.com/news-2022...2022-q1-sales/
"Sales numbers are in for the first three months of 2022 and as has been the case in each of the past few years, the Ford Mustang was the bestselling two-door performance car sold in the USA. The Mustang narrowly outsold the Dodge Challenger while both vehicle stomped the Chevrolet Camaro, which continues to post new historic low sales numbers." "Ford sold a total of 13,986 examples of the Mustang through the first three months of 2022, with the strongest month coming in January, where the Motor Company sent 5,671 new pony cars out into the world. While that total figure allowed the Mustang to lead the segment to start 2022, this marks the first time that Ford has sold less than 14,000 Mustangs in Q1 during the 11-year span in which I’ve been keeping track of American performance car sales. In past first quarters, Ford has sold 17,274 Mustangs in 2021, 18,069 in 2020 and 16,917 in 2019, so the first three months of this year have not been good, but they certainly could have been worse. For those wondering, these numbers do not include the Mustang Mach E SUV, which sold 2,363 units – down 10% from 2022. Challenger Claims Second The Dodge Challenger also had a pretty shaky quarter to start 2022 with just 11,124 units sold. That is the lowest Challenger sales total for Q1 since 2014, so in other words, this is the worst start to a year since the modern version of the car was introduced for the 2015 model year. Camaro Continues to Slide In the first quarter of 2022, Chevrolet sold just 6,710 Camaros. That is the worst Q1 for the Camaro in my 11 years of covering the segment and the fourth-worst overall. After selling just 21,893 Camaros in 2021 – the worst total in the history of the nameplate dating back to the 1960s – it comes as little surprise that sales of the bowtie-clad muscle car continue to slide downward. As bad as 2021 was for the Camaro, 2022 is looking even worse, starting the year off down more than 300 units from last year."
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#55
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Years ago I had an '09 Challenger R/T as a personal car. I purchased the car wholesale with 25,000 miles. I put another 45,000 trouble free miles on it.
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Current Pontiacs - 1973 Formula SD455 - #'s auto orig paint 1972 Trans Am - 4 speed orig paint 1974 Formula 400 - Ram Air automatic 1966 2+2 convertible - 421 4bbl automatic 1967 Grand Prix - 4 speed orig paint 1967 GTO - 4 speed orig paint 35k orig miles |
#56
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The '14 Camaro handling did improve after I lowered it by changing the springs... struts and installing new wheels/tires. So did the '09 Challenger R/T I used to own after I did the same thing. I also had a '13 Camaro SS ZL-1 clone for a while that was an automatic. Had a few C-5 and C6 Corvettes as well. As of now... I currently have a '99 Porsche 911 Carrera. I burned out on all those pretty quick and put them on the lot... which is where the Porsche is right now. My old '09 Challenger R/T drove and rode better than the '14 Camaro. It was more comfortable on long trips. The Camaro was a stick and the Challenger an automatic. I felt kind of claustrophobic in the Camaro. The Camaro was more fun when it came to hitting the backroads. My current Challenger.. the wide body.. is a stick and is great on the back roads and long trips. The Scat Pack wide body is considered to be more of a drivers car as opposed to the Hellcat. If I was more concerned about handling and prestige than raw power and muscle car feel... I would be more inclined to buy an M5 BMW than a Cadillac.. My comment regarding handling is real world experience between 2 cars I actually owned. Have you owned both? If not.... Please go on enjoying your country club old man car.
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Current Pontiacs - 1973 Formula SD455 - #'s auto orig paint 1972 Trans Am - 4 speed orig paint 1974 Formula 400 - Ram Air automatic 1966 2+2 convertible - 421 4bbl automatic 1967 Grand Prix - 4 speed orig paint 1967 GTO - 4 speed orig paint 35k orig miles |
#57
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#58
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I just think that Dodge has really been able to establish a culture of "We are the ones who actually care about fun and performance"
Plus a feel like their cars are more functional. The challenger I rented was far more roomy and easy to get in and out of than the 6th gen Camaro SS. Im sure that matters to some people. I dont think anyone would accuse the Corvette of not caring about performance, but not everyone can afford one. Especially the c8. Even if you can are you willing to wait on one, or pay way above MSRP. I think the Challenger historically has had more sub models too. I remember looking at all three of the pony cars in like 2013. The Mustang and Camaro both jumped you up to pretty much their max level of premium if you wanted a v8. The Camao went from like 23k v6 models to 40k just for the v8, because everyone was trim to the max. The Challenger was much more favorable to being able to get into an RT car without being the tippy top trim level.
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1967 Firebird 462 580hp/590ftlbs 1962 Pontiac Catalina Safari Swapped in Turd of an Olds 455 Owner/Creator Catfish Motorsports https://www.youtube.com/@CatfishMotorsports |
#59
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I have a 2018 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 with 52,000 miles that I bought new. Only issue I had was a rattle in the dash which they fixed under warranty. According to JD Power.. A Ram(Dodge) truck is superior to the GMC in quality.. Your postings are quite laughable..
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Current Pontiacs - 1973 Formula SD455 - #'s auto orig paint 1972 Trans Am - 4 speed orig paint 1974 Formula 400 - Ram Air automatic 1966 2+2 convertible - 421 4bbl automatic 1967 Grand Prix - 4 speed orig paint 1967 GTO - 4 speed orig paint 35k orig miles |
#60
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I quit buying Cadillacs.. Too many problems that are hard to diagnose and repair.
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Current Pontiacs - 1973 Formula SD455 - #'s auto orig paint 1972 Trans Am - 4 speed orig paint 1974 Formula 400 - Ram Air automatic 1966 2+2 convertible - 421 4bbl automatic 1967 Grand Prix - 4 speed orig paint 1967 GTO - 4 speed orig paint 35k orig miles |
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