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#61
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Great info, thanks for sharing your method.
The rear well strips are pretty solid on mine as well. Thinking I am going to reuse those as well. So, I will probably just install a new strip at the header bow.
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68 GTO 4-spd Convertible 78 S/E Trans am L78, WS6 Auto 78 S/E Trans am W72, WS6 Auto 79 10th aniv W72 Trans am 80 Indy pace car Trans am 89 Trans am GTA |
#62
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Here is what I believe to be an original top seam. Note, its a 42 year old barn find with 90k miles but fold is tight. The driver side follows a little further to the corner. Just thought Id offer some input to the conversation.
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#63
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So my well tack strips are "iffy" the rear is not too bad but the sides look a little chewed up. Not sure why. could have been from moisture, or just a bootload of staples. So, I might change out the sides.
Also curious about the seam I see on your tops at the front of the header bow. My original top did not have a seam there, it just wrapped around the leading edge. Does that seam predetermine where you can staple it? Seems like that would work against the process a little if I am looking the pictures correctly. Got all of my mechanical top parts blasted, epoxy primed & painted. that was a bit of work. Should be one of the last things to paint though. Well, at least the last bigger thing
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68 GTO 4-spd Convertible 78 S/E Trans am L78, WS6 Auto 78 S/E Trans am W72, WS6 Auto 79 10th aniv W72 Trans am 80 Indy pace car Trans am 89 Trans am GTA |
#64
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Parts have been media blasted, epoxy sealed & painted. I mixed my paint at semi gloss, & then added a bit more flattening agent. to drop it a fuzz more.
Amazing how many hours can be spent on all of these details. . .
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68 GTO 4-spd Convertible 78 S/E Trans am L78, WS6 Auto 78 S/E Trans am W72, WS6 Auto 79 10th aniv W72 Trans am 80 Indy pace car Trans am 89 Trans am GTA |
#65
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I really like the idea of assembling the top mechanism with the main brackets installed in the car. I think that's an excellent Idea & should minimize the chance of damage.
Anybody know what the shims are used for between the main brackets & the car body? Are they used to remove binding at the pivot points? Or do they serve some other alignment purpose? I still have mine in a bag, but I didn't keep track of how many were in what position. BTW, Is there an Admin that could change this thread to rebuilding the convertible top? We seem to be covering everything about the top & not just the pump anymore
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68 GTO 4-spd Convertible 78 S/E Trans am L78, WS6 Auto 78 S/E Trans am W72, WS6 Auto 79 10th aniv W72 Trans am 80 Indy pace car Trans am 89 Trans am GTA |
#66
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Quote:
Not sure about the front seam you are referring to. The top wraps around the header and is stapled to the front tack strip under the front header and glued as well. There’s not a lot of extra material to work with. Is the seam you’re referring to the separate thick welt piece that’s attached to the front edge of the header? If so, this is added last by stapling to header tack strip and then gluing overlapping flap and at corners. Your top frame looks great! Nice job on painting. I think you got the sheen just right.
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Don't rush me - it's only year 20 of the 3 year restoration! 68 GTO convertible YS M40, A/C, PS, PB-disc, Posi-T, PW, P-seat, AM-FM stereo 8-track, P-ant, P-trunk lid, Tilt-S, Rally gauges, Hideaways C1 224 Triple white |
#67
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The biggest mistake (& I have mentioned this before) was stripping that car for all the parts I could use & junking it. My father-in law bought the car new & it was all original, but into storage in 1982, but was already rusty (daily wisconsin driver from 68-82) then it sat outside for several years before going into a damp garage for another decade. Nothing left to the car. Even the hood was rusting through on the under bracing. But, my point was, I should have just stored the car away as an assembly manual. Dumb move by me to strip it 15 years ago. But, at that time my GTO was only going to be a driver restoration. So I guess I had no need for those details back then. The scope of my restoration changed about 9 years ago.
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68 GTO 4-spd Convertible 78 S/E Trans am L78, WS6 Auto 78 S/E Trans am W72, WS6 Auto 79 10th aniv W72 Trans am 80 Indy pace car Trans am 89 Trans am GTA |
#68
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Pump & plumbing is back in. Line length is good, but would have been nice if the fittings on the lower hoses were indexed 180 from where they are. By shop if the lines, they want to face the opposite direction so they kinda corkscrew when I hook them up. I tried reversing sides, but that didn't help. Too bad they don't index them when they put the fittings on. I still have the original fluid that I drained out of this system & now I am wondering if maybe it its trans fluid but was before the red color was added? Smelled pretty bad like brake fluid, but is likely something else based on what everyone mention previously. An April build system shouldn't of had brake fluid in it, but its is honey colored
But that being said, When I was talking to the guy at the hydraulics shop where I bought the pump seals, he said there would be no advantage to running transmission fluid. The additives in it are all about clutch function & dealing with heat. Kinda makes sense. He thought std hydraulic oil like AW32 is what he would use. Not that its a better oil, its just an industry standard in hydraulics. Do you think trans fluid is recommended so there is no mistaking what it is? That would make a lot of sense. Must be Something about turning the lines being pink when they were clear before I took it apart thats bugging me. ;
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68 GTO 4-spd Convertible 78 S/E Trans am L78, WS6 Auto 78 S/E Trans am W72, WS6 Auto 79 10th aniv W72 Trans am 80 Indy pace car Trans am 89 Trans am GTA Last edited by 68ragtop; 01-26-2019 at 09:22 AM. |
#69
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here's a video that kind of touches on what the hydraulic guy said about not needing the friction modifiers for metal on metal pumps, so kinda makes sense? I realize this video is about power steering fluid, but same idea as the vert pumps as they are both metal on metal? Does this mean the something in trans fluid can wear the metal on metal gears? My guess is in theory it could, but for a pump that only runs 15 seconds at a time, it would probably never happen.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...4&&FORM=VRDGAR I honestly enjoy the research of stuff like this. Overkill, but I still seem to learn something new every now & then.
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68 GTO 4-spd Convertible 78 S/E Trans am L78, WS6 Auto 78 S/E Trans am W72, WS6 Auto 79 10th aniv W72 Trans am 80 Indy pace car Trans am 89 Trans am GTA |
#70
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FWIW, as a technician on all kinds of aerial lift machines, which use hydraulics to perform most any function, I have seen the engineers spec ATF (Dexron) as well as regular spec hydraulic fluid in their machines. Having worked on them for years I wouldn't be worried that the Dexron would have any adverse effects on any hydraulic system. The friction modifiers won't affect seals or pumps adversely and more than half of transmissions function is hydraulic applications anyway, Dexron will work well as a strictly hydraulic system fluid.
The same applies for using AFF in manual transmissions, yes there are additives that need not be present, but the fluid will perform equally as well in either application. One thing I have noticed is that Dexron usually does not perform as well in extreme cold situations as straight hydraulic fluid, depending upon the spec of the hydraulic fluid. I once was having trouble with a JLG lift performing in near zero temperatures, and when talking with a factory rep was told to just thin it at about 10% with diesel fuel or kerosene. I did that and it worked just fine for cold use. Dexron seems to require a little bit more warmup time to function in near zero temperatures. I wouldn't think that you'll be raising or lowering your top though in these conditions...………. |
#71
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So did you ever use vegetable oil? I have a friend who works in that business & he told me on some jobs, (especially in the food industry) they have heavy equipment that uses vegetable oil. Not because it works better, but because if something fails they don't have to worry about contamination or environmental issues.
Makes sense.
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68 GTO 4-spd Convertible 78 S/E Trans am L78, WS6 Auto 78 S/E Trans am W72, WS6 Auto 79 10th aniv W72 Trans am 80 Indy pace car Trans am 89 Trans am GTA |
#72
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Also, doesn't tranny fluid have detergents in them? Wouldn't that be harder on the seals?
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68 GTO 4-spd Convertible 78 S/E Trans am L78, WS6 Auto 78 S/E Trans am W72, WS6 Auto 79 10th aniv W72 Trans am 80 Indy pace car Trans am 89 Trans am GTA |
#73
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I have never used vegetable oil, although I have heard of I being used for hydraulic in the food handling industry for the reason you specify, contamination.
The detergents will have no negative effect on seals as I posted many of the machines I have worked on used ATF for hydraulic fluid and many used straight hydraulic fluid. The replacement of seals was mostly due to dirt wearing the sealing surfaces. Transmissions don't use any specific type of seals or O rings and they survive just fine. As long as the fluid provides lubrication to the pump, seals, and valves it will work fine. An analogy I can tell you is the auto lift industry also uses ATF in some lifts, and some use straight hydraulic fluid, I don't see an advantage, or disadvantage to either fluid. |
#74
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Well, got my top mechanism all assembled today & other than the repop latch kit not looking like the orignal or even fitting at all for that matter, the rest went pretty well. One thing I never paid attention to is how the mechanism can bind a bit when its dropped all the way back. After a bunch of measuring I ended up putting some shims behind a few of the 6 main bolts to change the angle of the main two brackets & now it drops back like butter. Interestingly, when I took my car apart two cheesy steel shims fell out of one side when I removed the assembly.
Question for you guys who went through this. I am guessing the top fabric itself pulls the front header bow back quite a bit? The bow is adjusted all the way back on the drivers side & the allingment pin is still hitting too far forward. My only hope is its the lack of the top pulling everything tight....
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68 GTO 4-spd Convertible 78 S/E Trans am L78, WS6 Auto 78 S/E Trans am W72, WS6 Auto 79 10th aniv W72 Trans am 80 Indy pace car Trans am 89 Trans am GTA |
#75
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jumping back to the oil thing, Im Curious now what's really the general difference between AW32 & power steering fluid? Anti foaming additive because of the high speed vain style pump & anti wear agents maybe? Anybody know?
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68 GTO 4-spd Convertible 78 S/E Trans am L78, WS6 Auto 78 S/E Trans am W72, WS6 Auto 79 10th aniv W72 Trans am 80 Indy pace car Trans am 89 Trans am GTA |
#76
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So I thought I read that the latest revision of the hose kit from Ames was the correct length? The "lowering" hoses are 3.5" longer than my originals & its noticeable. This stuff frustrates me. Is this because its for all A bodies & some needed longer hoses, so its one fits all?
My list of aftermarket parts that I am pleased with is extremely short.... Also, was there a second set of hose retainers (the red ones) used to hold the lines on the sides of the rear seat bracing? I see two holes there, where it looks like some could go, however I only removed 2 from my car when I disassembled it. Trying to find a way to clean up the way the hoses look & its not happening. The extra length & improper indexing of the 90 degree fittings makes them look a bit wild compared to how the originals fit.
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68 GTO 4-spd Convertible 78 S/E Trans am L78, WS6 Auto 78 S/E Trans am W72, WS6 Auto 79 10th aniv W72 Trans am 80 Indy pace car Trans am 89 Trans am GTA |
#77
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Quote:
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Jeff |
#78
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Sure would be nice to grab these parts right off the sewing table & skip the boxing & shipping phase. Same thing with the floor carpet. Too much time in the box becomes hard to reverse.
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68 GTO 4-spd Convertible 78 S/E Trans am L78, WS6 Auto 78 S/E Trans am W72, WS6 Auto 79 10th aniv W72 Trans am 80 Indy pace car Trans am 89 Trans am GTA Last edited by 68ragtop; 02-17-2019 at 09:56 AM. |
#79
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My top still has those marks. I haven't tried steaming them out yet though...
I think those marks are created during the manufacturing process because they appear on both sides and look like clamp marks. Maybe they need to clamp and stretch the top to install the padding that on the underside between the fixed bow and top of window opening? |
#80
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Mine was folded over in the box both directions in the sail panels. slightly higher than where your marks are, but you can see the resemblance. I can stretch most of them out, but when I do, I get horseshoe marks left behind just like yours. I will contact the MFG & see what they suggest. There are some in the top as well, but so much stretch there compared to the sail panels I suppose.
Does yours have them on both sides? The right side on mine is not bad, left side is very prominent.
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68 GTO 4-spd Convertible 78 S/E Trans am L78, WS6 Auto 78 S/E Trans am W72, WS6 Auto 79 10th aniv W72 Trans am 80 Indy pace car Trans am 89 Trans am GTA Last edited by 68ragtop; 02-19-2019 at 08:22 AM. |
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