[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Paul,
You know anyone using GTO George's favorite band has to be the best / most excellent.

Stan

KRETTFMF!!! Do you think he is all butt sore over E'heads because they've went sevens naturally aspirated in a similar weight car and GG is still trying to accomplish that with hi-ports and a power adder.... along with much bigger tires?

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by taff2

A skirted block- cross bolted would be the best way to go without a doubt, think New Century blocks like the BBC's have. A reasonable alternative would be a clamshell cross bolted girdle set up on an IA2 or KRE block - one that could also be fitted to a stock block, I can't imagine that it would be difficult to get one of these cast up at reasonable money. Cap walk and fretting would be a thing of the past. JMO.

Something like that one piece unit that was seen on the 1970 427 SOHC engine that never was finished. It could bolt to all the 5/16 oil pan bolt holes too.
Cast in ductile iron, or steel.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by slowbird

How many cranks have been ran over lately?
I agree it's an nice thing but at this point i don't see it limiting any ones performance on the track.

Umm, yes it is. There have been at least 2 iron highly regarded iron race blocks destroyed with big boost in the not so distant past. At least one, maybe both are stepping up to aluminum billet skirted mains.

KRE,s billet block with standard mains is one choice. Then you have Visners block and the LSM block.
They would not be there if people did not feel the need for them. Builds are coming.

[Kevspontiacs@aol.com]

Originally Posted by ponjohn

What about a bolt on skirt with matching main caps?

Iirc twinTurbo Bill has made one of these

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Umm, yes it is. There have been at least 2 iron highly regarded iron race blocks destroyed with big boost in the not so distant past. At least one, maybe both are stepping up to aluminum billet skirted mains.

KRE,s billet block with standard mains is one choice. Then you have Visners block and the LSM block.
They would not be there if people did not feel the need for them. Builds are coming.

Boss Bird hasn't ran over a crank, neither has Butler, KRE, or Big Chief doesn't seem to be slowing them down. So who has ran over a crank? Maybe they had other issues.
Like i stated it's nice for reliability but not sure it's slowi g people down. Just my opinion.

[Kevspontiacs@aol.com]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Umm, yes it is. There have been at least 2 iron highly regarded iron race blocks destroyed with big boost in the not so distant past. At least one, maybe both are stepping up to aluminum billet skirted mains.

KRE,s billet block with standard mains is one choice. Then you have Visners block and the LSM block.
They would not be there if people did not feel the need for them. Builds are coming.

I was told from someone involved in one of those that they decided to send it with a bent crank. At NO time was the block blamed. Sounded like the mission meant more than the parts.

[mgarblik]

A fully skirted, deep block design with large cross bolts is a superior design for very high HP applications, little argument there. A bolt-on girdle band-aid apparatus of some type would also help some depending on specific design and how it was married to the block. A billet block with smaller mains and a skirted block would be better suited to the Boss Bird application. It would not be "Pontiac" enough to the guys who own it though. So far, at least, cap walk and fretting have been tolerable. Best possible race block? No, that would require a billet block that was not a "Pontiac" IMO. The Boss Bird cast Aluminum block is a stock dimension, stock deck height, 3" main traditional "Pontiac" block. Any production Pontiac head will bolt on, it uses a stock dimension lifter valley cover, timing cover, oil pan and valve covers. Everyone has their own idea of what a Pontiac needs to be, and it varies allot depending on who owns and races the car. Honestly, at an open event, more people think our engine is some type of small block or big block Chevy than a Pontiac. They generally figure out the narrow cylinder heads and plug wires not going through the middle of them must not be a hemi.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by 535 tall deck

I was told from someone involved in one of those that they decided to send it with a bent crank. At NO time was the block blamed. Sounded like the mission meant more than the parts.

No one is blaming ANY iron block. A casting has its limits.
I just want to see guys try it. (skirted) See just how much a Pontiac can push down on a crankshaft.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

A fully skirted, deep block design with large cross bolts is a superior design for very high HP applications, little argument there. A bolt-on girdle band-aid apparatus of some type would also help some depending on specific design and how it was married to the block. A billet block with smaller mains and a skirted block would be better suited to the Boss Bird application. It would not be "Pontiac" enough to the guys who own it though. So far, at least, cap walk and fretting have been tolerable. Best possible race block? No, that would require a billet block that was not a "Pontiac" IMO. The Boss Bird cast Aluminum block is a stock dimension, stock deck height, 3" main traditional "Pontiac" block. Any production Pontiac head will bolt on, it uses a stock dimension lifter valley cover, timing cover, oil pan and valve covers. Everyone has their own idea of what a Pontiac needs to be, and it varies allot depending on who owns and races the car. Honestly, at an open event, more people think our engine is some type of small block or big block Chevy than a Pontiac. They generally figure out the narrow cylinder heads and plug wires not going through the middle of them must not be a hemi.

I think your guys approach is great. Stock dimensions and all. RAVs with pushrod in the port too.

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by 535 tall deck

Iirc twinTurbo Bill has made one of these

LOL

[69Goat1]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

Did you ever ask yourself why Chief isn’t running no prep....almost everyone else is.....hmmmm!


GTO George

Chiefs own words...

“If you street...be street...if you ain’t...be ain’t...”

Ever notice how those guys come off the track racing deal and then can’t hang with a Pontiac on the street. They lose the tune...Chief doesn’t...he’s still street racing even off the show and making big money at it!

[Mark G]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

KRETTFMF!!! Do you think he is all butt sore over E'heads because they've went sevens naturally aspirated in a similar weight car and GG is still trying to accomplish that with hi-ports and a power adder.... along with much bigger tires?

LOL so true./.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Boss Bird hasn't ran over a crank, neither has Butler, KRE, or Big Chief doesn't seem to be slowing them down. So who has ran over a crank? Maybe they had other issues.
Like i stated it's nice for reliability but not sure it's slowi g people down. Just my opinion.

Boss Bird and Chief both run the heat treated solid IA2A block. It has shown to take anything thrown at it.
KRE did have some of the early blocks, well you know how that went.
It has slowed people down. When you rip every main out of a race iron block it tends to do that. Just because the crank actually did not end up on the pavement does not mean the block did not fail.
Pics don't lie. Not posting so don't ask. Cast iron has its limits.

[chiefbigb]

Dragncar you and that scarecrow from the wizard of oz have allot in common

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by chiefbigb

Dragncar you and that scarecrow from the wizard of oz have allot in common

Lmfao!!

[GTO Dan]

Originally Posted by 69Goat1

Chiefs own words...

“If you street...be street...if you ain’t...be ain’t...”

Ever notice how those guys come off the track racing deal and then can’t hang with a Pontiac on the street. They lose the tune...Chief doesn’t...he’s still street racing even off the show and making big money at it!

Truth

And as Chief’s license plate says.....”481XLOL”

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Boss Bird hasn't ran over a crank, neither has Butler, KRE, or Big Chief doesn't seem to be slowing them down. So who has ran over a crank? Maybe they had other issues.
Like i stated it's nice for reliability but not sure it's slowi g people down. Just my opinion.

Tom Moon ran over his crank....

[Kevspontiacs@aol.com]

Originally Posted by 535 tall deck

Iirc twinTurbo Bill has made one of these

The more I think about it I believe he made a cap/main girdle set up

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Boss Bird and Chief both run the heat treated solid IA2A block. It has shown to take anything thrown at it.
KRE did have some of the early blocks, well you know how that went.
It has slowed people down. When you rip every main out of a race iron block it tends to do that. Just because the crank actually did not end up on the pavement does not mean the block did not fail.
Pics don't lie. Not posting so don't ask. Cast iron has its limits.

Both Chief and Boss Bird ran iron IA2 blocks before recently switching to the solid alum blocks.
Again a skirted block is nice but i dont see performance being effected just reliability

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by 535 tall deck

The more I think about it I believe he made a cap/main girdle set up

We are going back nearly 10 years here, but I think that set-up actually produced in metal was for an Oldsmobile V-8. If my memory serves Mr. Anderson was working with Cody, (last name?) at Joe Mondello Racing Engines and they had cut that unit out for Oldsmobile installation. I do remember him posting somewhere a similar unit for a Pontiac in a CAD format of some type. But not sure if one was ever made. Steve Barcak and a couple other guys have made multi-piece reinforcement girdles for Pontiac blocks. As an engine machinist, I like the multi-piece design from a service standpoint. Having a one-piece girdle/main cap bridge is a complete nightmare when it comes time to line bore/hone the mains. Conventional engine machining equipment can't handle a piece like this. Now your into CNC machining for routine service. A deep skirted block with 7/16" or 1/2" cross bolts and individual caps would be the best for strength and service. For big HP, a stock design Pontiac block just doesn't have the material in the right places to create the best possible lower end. If you use 9/16" fasteners in the center bolt holes, there is very little material left to hold them. The outer splayed holes as well if large fasteners are used, very little material to hold them. A much smaller main bearing would help by allowing more material around them to hold the caps. The original 180 HP design from 1955 has it's limits. The 3000 HP a few are making out there is probably close.