[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by barrierblue66

Ah OK, I can see the rear sagging a bit now. Mine sits a little bit higher, just perfectly level. Hard to see with the little bit of shadow at the top of the wheel openings

Yea yours sits a little higher. When you look at the wheel and how far it is in the wheel wheel in the back, its hard to believe theres any rake at all. You also may have bigger tires?? This pic was taken with 14" 215/70. But yours looks really nice.

[barrierblue66]

These are the Coker classic radials, 205/14's. I may have gotten the 'vert springs or whatever PY was recommending at the time, so took a shot. That was early 90's. After replacing everything I was happy. I liked the level look. SOme like a little lift in the rear. All personal preference, right?

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by barrierblue66

These are the Coker classic radials, 205/14's. I may have gotten the 'vert springs or whatever PY was recommending at the time, so took a shot. That was early 90's. After replacing everything I was happy. I liked the level look. SOme like a little lift in the rear. All personal preference, right?

Exactly.

[Old Blue 66]

A lot more needs to be done than I thought. After inspecting everything and degreasing everything (grease was caked everywhere - almost finished), theres very little that needs to be replaced and the things that can be painted will come out nice.

From this pic, trans lines will be replaced. Firewall will be repainted and what you can see of the frame will be repainted. Is it a coincidence that an Eastwood catalog came in the mail yesterday?

Before all that happens the shock holes need to be welded inn. I bought a cheapo tumbler for the bolts. Seems to be working just ok. The brass fittings for the trans lines on the radiator came out really nice.

[PurplePackFan]

Just a thought, now would be a good time to convert to a dual reservoir master cylinder. Unless you are going after the ultimate stock look, that would be a lot safer.

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by PurplePackFan

Just a thought, now would be a good time to convert to a dual reservoir master cylinder. Unless you are going after the ultimate stock look, that would be a lot safer.

Its on the list!! NOt sure if its gonna happen based on budget, but you are right and I do want to add it. Thanks.

[428goat]

What are you getting done on the engine? Rebuild or refresh or? Are you going to drop the compression so it runs good on pump gas? New pistons? Rebalance and same or different cam?

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by 428goat

What are you getting done on the engine? Rebuild or refresh or? Are you going to drop the compression so it runs good on pump gas? New pistons? Rebalance and same or different cam?

Rebuild, drop the compression just a bit to run on pump gas (they are going to shave the pistons just a touch, cant remember what he said), and new cam. I dont know the specs of what the cam will be yet. They are tearing it down today.

[abefromen]

You may want to rethink having those slugs "shaved". I'm no pro engine builder but there are other ways to drop compression to reasonable levels in a Pontiac engine.

Read post #11 in this thread:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...=shave+pistons

Also, although I never used them for anything and don't wanna knock your machine shop choice but what made you go with R&R in Addison? Did you consider Calvin Hill at Hill Performance in Lakemoor? I've heard a couple of horror stories about R&R but then again I should just keep my yap shut as I dont have personal experience with them.

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by abefromen

You may want to rethink having those slugs "shaved". I'm no pro engine builder but there are other ways to drop compression to reasonable levels in a Pontiac engine.

Read post #11 in this thread:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...=shave+pistons

Also, although I never used them for anything and don't wanna knock your machine shop choice but what made you go with R&R in Addison? Did you consider Calvin Hill at Hill Performance in Lakemoor? I've heard a couple of horror stories about R&R but then again I should just keep my yap shut as I dont have personal experience with them.

My friend used to own a shop (long life Pontiac guy) and did a lot of business with R&R. Dont scare me. Hes going to talk to them about them compression and cam lift.

Calvin has a good rep for building and being VERY expensive.

I copied post 11 from Bart and emailed to my friend asking his advice. Thanks.

[b-man]

Bore the block oversize and invest in a set of dished pistons.

Put a new 068 cam in it and keep the valvetrain all factory stock. Once you start increasing the valve lift with aftermarket cams you open up a can of worms, these old 389s all have press-in studs that like to pull out when using stiffer springs and higher valve lifts than stock.

Pump gas friendly and dead reliable, just way we like 'em.

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by b-man

Bore the block oversize and invest in a set of dished pistons.

Put a new 068 cam in it and keep the valvetrain all factory stock. Once you start increasing the valve lift with aftermarket cams you open up a can of worms, these old 389s all have press-in studs that like to pull out when using stiffer springs and higher valve lifts than stock.

Pump gas friendly and dead reliable, just way we like 'em.

I was talking to my friend about dished pistons this morning. The challenge here is a dish piston is a cast part where the stock pistons are forged. I understand that a cast piston doesn't expand as much under heat and something about tolerances need to be figured out which could be a problem. Again, Im not an engine builder and learning here as I go. But I have to say I am thoroughly confused.

Then it was mentioned that I just find a set of 6X heads and keep the stock pistons. But after searching the web today, the CC size for those may be too big. Right now Im at about 62 cc with 10.25:1 (loosing half for a worn motor from 10.5) and to run pump gas, I need to be under 10 with a CC size of around 87.

So what the heck do I do. The 6X heads has different cc sizes and you never know what your getting when you get one.

The whole idea here is to bring the compression down to run pump gas.

[abefromen]

Stock pistons are cast not forged.

Simple solution with a 389 is go .060 over and use standard 400 pistons. They are very common and inexpensive as compared to trying to find .030 or .040 oversize 389 pistons.

The 6X heads will allow you to run 87 octane which in my book is a good thing as that is expensive enough. You wont win any races with such low compression but depending on what you're using the car for you may be ok with that. There are also aftermarket cams you can use to make up for such low compression and give you a bit more power.

Has the bore size been measured yet on your 389? What heads are on it now?

[Satyr1966]

I may be wrong (I often am) but I thought that the '64 engines were incompatible with the later heads. Different bolt pattern & oiling through the push-rod studs. From the earlier posts I believe this is a '64 389 that's being rebuilt. Jerry.

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by Satyr1966

I may be wrong (I often am) but I thought that the '64 engines were incompatible with the later heads. Different bolt pattern & oiling through the push-rod studs. From the earlier posts I believe this is a '64 389 that's being rebuilt. Jerry.

Yes! I just found that out. Nothing from later yer 389s will bolt on

So heres the plan:

Like Bart said keep it stock. Dished pistons and 068 cam. I talked to a friend that agrees. Im not going to modify this motor simply becuase its not a motor you can build. Its a one year motor and thats it. later down the road when budget presents itself, then we build for power.

[b-man]

Originally Posted by Old Blue 66

Yes! I just found that out. Nothing from later yer 389s will bolt on

So heres the plan:

Like Bart said keep it stock. Dished pistons and 068 cam. I talked to a friend that agrees. Im not going to modify this motor simply becuase its not a motor you can build. Its a one year motor and thats it. later down the road when budget presents itself, then we build for power.

You're getting your information from the wrong people.

Any year head can bolt to any year block, there's nothing unique about a '64 or earlier block as far as the bolt pattern to attach the heads is concerned.

The intake manifold must be from a '61 -'64 engine to bolt to the '64 heads, that's it.

The '63 -'64 '716' heads were the first heads (besides early SD) to oil through the pushrods, all other '64 and earlier oiled the rockers through the rocker studs. All 1965 and later heads oiled the rockers through the pushrods.

So if you want you can put later heads on your '64, but of course you'll need a '65 or later intake to go along with them.

Keep it simple, just buy the proper forged dished pistons and use a stock performance cam like the 068.

You will be keeping the value of the 1964 GTO 389 intact and it will have some decent resale in the future if you ever decide to swap to a 'correct' 1966 GTO 389.

It will run so damn good though that you'll likely drive it 'til you die.

[abefromen]

Originally Posted by b-man

You're getting your information from the wrong people.

Yep. I had later heads on my '64 389 block.

[Old Blue 66]

Originally Posted by b-man

You're getting your information from the wrong people.

Any year head can bolt to any year block, there's nothing unique about a '64 or earlier block as far as the bolt pattern to attach the heads is concerned.

The intake manifold must be from a '61 -'64 engine to bolt to the '64 heads, that's it.

The '63 -'64 '716' heads were the first heads (besides early SD) to oil through the pushrods, all other '64 and earlier oiled the rockers through the rocker studs. All 1965 and later heads oiled the rockers through the pushrods.

So if you want you can put later heads on your '64, but of course you'll need a '65 or later intake to go along with them.

Keep it simple, just buy the proper forged dished pistons and use a stock performance cam like the 068.

You will be keeping the value of the 1964 GTO 389 intact and it will have some decent resale in the future if you ever decide to swap to a 'correct' 1966 GTO 389.

It will run so damn good though that you'll likely drive it 'til you die.

I got good information, I just explained it wrong.

I should have elaborated. If I changed the heads, then I would have to change the intake, then I would have to change the carb. Too much just to lower compression just a wee bit to run safely on pump gas. Even though Im replacing or rebuilding just about everything under the hood weather it needs it or not, this is still a budget build. Im look for a dependable cruiser that I can hop in and drive for a couple of hundred miles and not worry about it.

Thats the point I should have made earlier. Sorry guys.

[Old Blue 66]

Ok well after a ton of research, I've decided to dump the 64 389 in favor of a 68 400. The builder that had my 64 was argumentative about how to build it and I didn't trust him.

R & R Engine Rebuilders in Addison il. Don't go there.

Taking the engine back made me think about things. I found a new builder by the name of Rick Johnson out of Crete, IL. He calls his shop Custom Automotive. Great guy. He builds a lot of engines but most of them are Pontiacs. He has a red 62 Cat that he races and it's has the words "no sponsor" on the rear quarters.

We sat and talked all morning about what I wanted out of the motor and his recommendations were spot on. So much in fact that I took it as a sign from the first guy that I should build the motor that I want.

It's nothing crazy. But a 68 400 with a stoker kit. 1976 6x heads, Edelbrock 7157 cam. I'll top it off with a Performer intake and Performer 600 Cfm carb. I don't know all the specifics yet but bore size because of the strokes kit will be at 35. Should be an honest 450 hp. Compression should be right at 10:1.

He found a mostly compete motor core for $350. Should be done in three weeks.

[Greg Reid]

Sounds like a great plan...although I think I'd drop the compression just a tad myself. In fact, I think with the 6X heads, it may be a tad lower than 10:1 anyway?..Which would probably be about right.