[Formulajones]

Funny you mentioned that. I don't know if this is a KP filter but it's a similar stainless mesh design and it didn't favor too well.

Lake Speed Jr (total seal) just did a comparison between a regular Wix and a stainless mesh filter with purposely contaminated oil and sent samples off for oil analysis. I didn't catch which brand wire mesh filter was used but it did horribly.
Maybe there are better examples of that style filter but this certainly wasn't one of them. It had a profound affect on ring seal because after an hour of run time the engine lost a fair amount of HP on the dyno. It's an interesting test if nothing else.

https://youtu.be/bVEbHTNWxoQ

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Funny you mentioned that. I don't know if this is a KP filter but it's a similar stainless mesh design and it didn't favor too well.

Lake Speed Jr (total seal) just did a comparison between a regular Wix and a stainless mesh filter with purposely contaminated oil and sent samples off for oil analysis. I didn't catch which brand wire mesh filter was used but it did horribly.
Maybe there are better examples of that style filter but this certainly wasn't one of them. It had a profound affect on ring seal because after an hour of run time the engine lost a fair amount of HP on the dyno. It's an interesting test if nothing else.

https://youtu.be/bVEbHTNWxoQ

I watched this video last week. I'd never put one of the reusable filters on any engine I had a sizeable investment in.

These guys are from Total Seal, and stress that every new ring break in will yield a fair bit of metal solids into the fresh oil. It's all explained very well in the video how the paper media was head and shoulders over the reusable metal media.

They subscribe to the same school of thought, that any size
solid that can be removed from the oil is going to prolong oil, and engine life. The 30 micron filtering that a reusable filter removes, just isn't sufficient, and could cost you an engine over a period of time.

Another study suggests that just rinsing the screens in a reusable filter may leave a lot of solids still in the screen, they suggest ultra sonic cleaning to dislodge the stubborn particulate, over just flushing with solvent.

Watch the video, and decide if you want to use one on your equipment.

[Bruce Meyer]

Good video with very surprising results. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWblUriIwhg&t=1113s

[Formulas]

I wouldnt put much faith in the contaminated oil video.

Different micron filters and some of test A contamination still in the engine with new contamination for test B

nothing burger

Also on engine masters they did a oil filter shoot out on a Mopar 440
one test point was oil flow
That engine flowed around ( from memory) 6 gallons a miniute, a spin on filter with fins isnt going to cool squat with oil speeding through it like that , not enough cooling area and the local air flow is what? just off the headers ..

I am impressed by nobody claiming bearing wash in a oil pressure too high post, very good

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Funny you mentioned that. I don't know if this is a KP filter but it's a similar stainless mesh design and it didn't favor too well.

Lake Speed Jr (total seal) just did a comparison between a regular Wix and a stainless mesh filter with purposely contaminated oil and sent samples off for oil analysis. I didn't catch which brand wire mesh filter was used but it did horribly.
Maybe there are better examples of that style filter but this certainly wasn't one of them. It had a profound affect on ring seal because after an hour of run time the engine lost a fair amount of HP on the dyno. It's an interesting test if nothing else.

https://youtu.be/bVEbHTNWxoQ

I have seen that video. It did not look like a K& P filter to me but I can not say for sure. It would have been nice if they would have shown the outside.
K&P filters are FFA approved. There is no way the FFA is going to approve a filter that damages a aircraft engine powering a airplane full of people.
I know at one time they were standard equipment on a million dollar European supercar.
Think is, those Total Seal guys are vehemently against ANY oil additive.
I have been using Lucas and Prolong with great success for years.
And K&P does mention knock off filters that preform horribly on their site.
The Oberg filters have been around a long time. And they are 60 micron, much larger than a K&P.

This is a high dollar engine and this shop uses them. Does dyno pulls and removes and inspect for signs of damage.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

I watched this video last week. I'd never put one of the reusable filters on any engine I had a sizeable investment in.

These guys are from Total Seal, and stress that every new ring break in will yield a fair bit of metal solids into the fresh oil. It's all explained very well in the video how the paper media was head and shoulders over the reusable metal media.

They subscribe to the same school of thought, that any size
solid that can be removed from the oil is going to prolong oil, and engine life. The 30 micron filtering that a reusable filter removes, just isn't sufficient, and could cost you an engine over a period of time.

Another study suggests that just rinsing the screens in a reusable filter may leave a lot of solids still in the screen, they suggest ultra sonic cleaning to dislodge the stubborn particulate, over just flushing with solvent.

Watch the video, and decide if you want to use one on your equipment.

The K&P folks are all about using one of your by pass filters combined with their if you want super clean oil.
I have a sonic cleaner, works great.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Tim Corcoran

This is very interesting, anyone else using one of these K&P filters?

I found out about these from a Mike Davis post. Pretty sure it was him.
He has raced more than I ever will.

[Tim Corcoran]

I don't want to experiment with something I'm not sure about with an expensive engine. If enough people on this board tell me they have been using them for years without issue, then maybe. I can't go off of an advertisement from the manufacture as we all know that's the wrong place to get a warm fuzzy.

[Tim Corcoran]

Originally Posted by Bruce Meyer

Good video with very surprising results. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWblUriIwhg&t=1113s

This is test is a fluke, most testing says the opposite. It would depend on your ring type, how good or bad your ring seal is and who knows what else. Maybe they got the oil mixed up. A one-time test like this that goes against all other test results doesn't tell me much.

My brother-in-law works for Lucas oil, Lucas is a sponsor for a well known NASCAR team here in North Carolina. He personally develops different oils for this team. They put the oil through extensive testing on their million dollar engine dynos. They look at HP and wear and compare the two, my brother-in-law gives them the thinnest oil he can trying different additive packages and the race team tells him which one they like the best. I have gone with my brother-in-law to this racing facility twice and have met with their engineers and other tech people a very interesting opportunity for sure.

[Jay S]

The engine masters video reinforce’s that the oil which makes the most power is the thinnest oil that has the best ring seal. In the case of the engine masters video with the stock 454 the 20w50 simply had better ring seal than the 5w30. A lot different than ultra thin rings on gas port pistons. You don’t always know what the engine wants until you try something different.

Best ring seal probably shouldn’t be in the most important category for engine oil in a street car.

[rohrt]

Took the car out last night to see how the 5w-20 might change the pressure readings.

Cold start at idle was still near 80
Once at operating temp idle pressure was right at 40
Under 2k cruising would hover around 65-70.
Above 2k would be closer to 75
So there was about a 10psi change observed.

As for oil pump mod, I only used one washer, as it was supposed to take up the gap of the smaller check ball, but was a tad more. I'm surprised the spring would be that sensitive.
I do wonder if the nightmare performance 1/4" plate has more to do with it. I thought I read that factory thin plate would distort and leak under high loads.

And for gauge accuracy. I don't have any way to test it at the moment.

One last thing, my temp is only coming up to 135 on the guage. I need to look into that more. I question then if the oil is really reaching operating temp. I would think maybe once it does it may come down just a little more.

[78w72]

Good to hear it dropped some, that indicates the 20/50 was too thick for your set up pressure wise but also too thick for a street clearance engine IMO. 5/20 is a pretty big drop in weight & probably not really ideal for the engine, especially under heavy load or high rpm use, 10/30 would be a better weight.

Im in your town & can loan you a mech oil psi gauge if you want to compare it to your factory gauges, or can buy a cheap one from summit or local auto part stores. You can also use a infra red temp gun to confirm the temp at the T-stat housing, 135 seems awfully low, especially in the mid 90s we've had the last few days.

[Formulajones]

Nothing wrong with those pressures although that oil is on the thin side. I'd feel better with 10-30 and just run with it.

[LATECH]

I have a customer with a 66 389 and it has the 80 psi pump in it. Likely someone put a washer behind the spring in the relief valve as well. It will peg close to 100 psi when cold. It has started to cause a problem with the lifters . Seems with sae 40 when cold, at startup i will run rough untill the lifters start to finally bleed some pressure .i know the lifters are pumping up and holding the valves open a smidge casuing misfiring/rough running.
I have even put on poly locks and set the valve adjustement to 1/8 turn past zero lash to help alleviate the problem
He is coming in tommororw for a oil change .I am going to put in 5w 30
I hope it clears the problem up.
After it runs a few minutes and the oil warms up, the pressure drops some and the misfires quit occuring, everything is good. When it is cold , and misfiring , it is a challenge to keep it running long enough to warm up.
Of course we have had some 30 degree nights, and a few 20 ish degree nights.
Have anyone else had an issue that the lifters pump up and hold open the valves?
I have also changed the valve springs as well with new stock springs .
My original take on the problem was the springs were getting weak ( and they were) and it was allowing the lifter to pump up against the valve and hold it open until pressure dropped.
Comments?

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by LATECH

I have a customer with a 66 389 and it has the 80 psi pump in it. Likely someone put a washer behind the spring in the relief valve as well. It will peg close to 100 psi when cold. It has started to cause a problem with the lifters . Seems with sae 40 when cold, at startup i will run rough untill the lifters start to finally bleed some pressure .i know the lifters are pumping up and holding the valves open a smidge casuing misfiring/rough running.
I have even put on poly locks and set the valve adjustement to 1/8 turn past zero lash to help alleviate the problem
He is coming in tommororw for a oil change .I am going to put in 5w 30
I hope it clears the problem up.
After it runs a few minutes and the oil warms up, the pressure drops some and the misfires quit occuring, everything is good. When it is cold , and misfiring , it is a challenge to keep it running long enough to warm up.
Of course we have had some 30 degree nights, and a few 20 ish degree nights.
Have anyone else had an issue that the lifters pump up and hold open the valves?
I have also changed the valve springs as well with new stock springs .
My original take on the problem was the springs were getting weak ( and they were) and it was allowing the lifter to pump up against the valve and hold it open until pressure dropped.
Comments?

We ran into similar problems before on a couple engines and high volume oil pumps running a lot of cold oil pressure, but I don’t recall the miss totally clearing up once warmed up.
To fix it we adjusted the valves with the engine cold until the miss cleared up, did it with the engine running. End up being about zero lash cold with the plunger almost against the retaining ring.

[Sirrotica]

My neighbor rebuilt a 460 ford in a 1972, mercury, and it did the same thing, the new oil pump was defective and the bypass valve was stuck. He had the same problem as you're having holding the valves open when cold, backfiring etc. As soon as he ran the engine about 30 seconds he got enough heat to thin the oil out, and it was fine the rest of the day. The next morning the ritual started all over again.

One morning I was standing outside at my house and heard the problem when he did the first start in the AM, and after we talked I told him I thought the oil pump relief was stuck closed. The car only had an idiot light, so he had no idea what the oil pressure was. I told him to buy a gauge so he could monitor it, sure enough, over 100 PSI on the first start, and when warmed up it was over 75 lbs at highway speed. Another new oil pump solved the problem.

I hope maybe that incident might shed some light on your customers problem.

A stuck relief can also cause the oil pump driveshaft to shear, I've seen that happen on a 302 ford about 40 years ago, of course the oil light being on didn't make the guy stop driving it, he ran it until the engine seized.