[bober]

Is it necessary to use a splash guard with a oil pan with baffle ? If so can the splash guard be the 1/2 or 3/4 length ? thanks

[mgarblik]

If we are talking about the same thing? The windage tray? If so, they have somewhat different purposes. The pan baffles help keep oil in the sump near the pick-up so air is not sucked into the pump. The windage tray helps keep some oil off the rotating crankshaft which makes a tiny bit more horsepower and keeps the rotating parts from whipping up and aerating the oil as much. PMD felt the baffled oil pan was sufficient for the street capabilities of their engines in the early 70's and discontinued the windage trays. This saved a little weight and a couple bucks per engine. Of note: Most modern performance engines including the modern Hemi and the LS engines use factory windage trays. Imports too. So personally, I think they are a good idea. I am adding one to the SD-455 engine I am building now as they DID NOT have them from the factory. So it's really up to you. I can't see how it would ever hurt being in there unless it was hitting a rotating crankshaft or connecting rod. The factory sizes are full length, 5/5, or the short one 4/5. A 4/5 pan is an easy fit and less crack prone. You will need the small dipstick guide tube to go with it if you decide to use one.

[b-man]

Run it without the windage tray.

Unfortunately the factory trays are known for cracking and getting balled up inside the pan in some instances

[Gach]

Yep, have had a few crack to the point of hitting counterweight on the crank.

[Dragncar]

There is no reason you can not take a factory windage tray and reinforce the crack prone areas.
Some little tabs made out of 10-12 gauge steel is easy enough to do.
When welding gussets on crack prone areas many times its best to not fully weld them.
Weld the sides up and not the top and bottom (or visa versa)
Sometimes fully welding things like this is asking for it to crack.
Metal does flex and if its welded solid that is what makes the weld crack.

[sdbob]

On my SD I run the full windage tray with extra holes drilled to help oil away from crank. I also run the baffled later pan with a small tab welded on back side right above pickup directing oil back to sump on hard launches. My 2cts.

[mgarblik]

I was recently informed that there were several versions of the 4/5 windage tray stamped. Paul K explained that the best version had double the number of reinforcement struts stamped in the sides of the tray (6) and the entire tray is thicker sheet metal. They have a rather large number "5" stamped right in the middle. That is the one I recently purchased. I have also heard from reliable sources that the Chinese unit available new is a nice piece. All that being said, in 50 years of working with Pontiac engines, I have never personally seen a cracked or broken windage tray of any version. I certainly have seen plenty of pictures of cracked ones, usually radiating out from the thick mounting plates where they bolt on. Also have seen some cracked on the sides where the drain slots are punched in. So they DO certainly crack occasionally. If they never cracked, Pontiac would not have improved the stamping. If you check carefully for contact with internal parts, and inspect the tray carefully, I think the chance of failure is pretty low. Do you need one? Hard to say it MUST be in there. PMD didn't feel it was necessary on the top dog SD-455. I like them anyway. Up to the owner.

[Steve C.]

Pontiac Windage Tray & Oil Baffle Tech

https://www.gtoforum.com/threads/pon...e-tech.137776/




.

[PAUL K]

I'm confused why the short one is considered a 4/5 tray.... It covers 6 of the 8 rods. I'd think that was 3/4.... I just want avoid the Pontiac Big Block Small block faithful coming after me.

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

I was recently informed that there were several versions of the 4/5 windage tray stamped. Paul K explained that the best version had double the number of reinforcement struts stamped in the sides of the tray (6) and the entire tray is thicker sheet metal. They have a rather large number "5" stamped right in the middle. That is the one I recently purchased. I have also heard from reliable sources that the Chinese unit available new is a nice piece. All that being said, in 50 years of working with Pontiac engines, I have never personally seen a cracked or broken windage tray of any version. I certainly have seen plenty of pictures of cracked ones, usually radiating out from the thick mounting plates where they bolt on. Also have seen some cracked on the sides where the drain slots are punched in. So they DO certainly crack occasionally. If they never cracked, Pontiac would not have improved the stamping. If you check carefully for contact with internal parts, and inspect the tray carefully, I think the chance of failure is pretty low. Do you need one? Hard to say it MUST be in there. PMD didn't feel it was necessary on the top dog SD-455. I like them anyway. Up to the owner.

In the course of my previous engine core program & tearing down well over a hundred early 70's Pontiac engine cores, I've only seen one original short tray 400 tray that was cracked.

Sourcing... Pontiac installed the 4/5 windage tray with the lightly stamped "5" on the early's 455's, had to do with the crank clearance. 350 & 400's of this era received the "O" style. Len also confirmed this w me in the early 90's. There were also some 350 2bbl engines assembled w/o a 4/5 tray.

[Gach]

Yeah it’s a hit or miss with the Full length trays. Even if you weld them up they still able to crack. So just a heads up because it’s really aggravating having to pull the motor to find out what makes that noise when it starts up. You’re better off just to put a crank scraper in. Butler sells some good ones. But hey it’s your decision to make.

[i82much]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I'm confused why the short one is considered a 4/5 tray.... It covers 6 of the 8 rods. I'd think that was 3/4.... I just want avoid the Pontiac Big Block Small block faithful coming after me.

My friend's brother's second cousin's uncle bought a 67 GTO tripower brand new, came stock with a supercharged 421 and a 4 speed. It had a titanium windage tray and tunnel port heads from the factory. True story!!

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by i82much

My friend's brother's second cousin's uncle bought a 67 GTO tripower brand new, came stock with a supercharged 421 and a 4 speed. It had a titanium windage tray and tunnel port heads from the factory. True story!!

I believe you.... Was it a Big Block or Small Block 421?

Did it have a 3/4 cam or 4/5 cam?

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I'm confused why the short one is considered a 4/5 tray.... It covers 6 of the 8 rods. I'd think that was 3/4.... I just want avoid the Pontiac Big Block Small block faithful coming after me.

Yiikes! I don't know what the heck I was saying in a couple posts I made about size. I think I just took the OP's original post asking about 1/2 length and 3/4 length and just ran with it. Sorry to all. I always referred to them as 3/4 length and full length. Should have stayed with that! Now, if I could just find my small block 421 around here somewhere?

[Dragncar]

You are better off with a windage tray than without it.
have not heard of one of these breaking, so what is the downside ?
https://butlerperformance.com/i-2445...windage%2Btray

Ace had them made out of thicker steel too.
89$, not too bad and you do not have to weld-reinforce them.

[i82much]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I believe you.... Was it a Big Block or Small Block 421?

Did it have a 3/4 cam or 4/5 cam?

aluminum big block with a big solid roller!

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Yiikes! I don't know what the heck I was saying in a couple posts I made about size. I think I just took the OP's original post asking about 1/2 length and 3/4 length and just ran with it. Sorry to all. I always referred to them as 3/4 length and full length. Should have stayed with that! Now, if I could just find my small block 421 around here somewhere?

Hi Mike.... My comment definetly wasn't aimed at you. The short one is commonly referred to as a 4/5..... Maybe there is a 4/5 one for the Pontiac small block and then the 3/4 for the big block

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by i82much

aluminum big block with a big solid roller!

3/4 solid roller or a 4/5?

Gotta stay away from the 15/16 flat lobe cam....it makes too much horsepower for the street!

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

In the course of my previous engine core program & tearing down well over a hundred early 70's Pontiac engine cores, I've only seen one original short tray 400 tray that was cracked.

Sourcing... Pontiac installed the 4/5 windage tray with the lightly stamped "5" on the early's 455's, had to do with the crank clearance. 350 & 400's of this era received the "O" style. Len also confirmed this w me in the early 90's. There were also some 350 2bbl engines assembled w/o a 4/5 tray.

That is interesting. The "5" windage tray has several reinforcement ribs compared to other "O" short length trays I've seen. Have you ever compared the thickness of an O tray?

Do you recall if the 70 455's came with a long or short tray? My 70 400 was very early production and had a full width tray. It seemed to me that 71 was the change to the shorter tray.

[Skip Fix]

I have had a couple of trays with beginning cracks usually at the dipstick hole and the parts going o the "scraper" section. I figure probably vibration and metal fatigue. I have welded braces on a couple one in my current 455 in the 78. The mild pump gas motor in the 81 had several cracks so I just cut off the scraper portion