[goatwgn]

Looking to see what anyone of you that has installed tubular upper control arms with the taller ball joints have experienced in ride quality and handling improvements? Thinking of doing this on my '66 Tempest Custom wagon. Already have Bilstein shocks, thick stabilizer bars, airbags in the rear, quick, variable ratio steering box, 60 series tires. Already handles pretty well for a stock suspension, just looking for an even better setup for higher speed stability, and a good compromise between ride and handling, as well as better tire wear

[Geoff]

Did exactly what you are contemplating on my GTO & noticed ZERO difference......well, er, except for a lighter wallet.

[66sprint6]

Where you are, suspension wise, with your wagon, is where we would like to be with our car. Right now, we have the upgraded front sway bar, the rear air bags in the coils, and a steering box from a mid-seventies sporty A-body. Collectively, it's been a measurable improvement. The Lee or Jeep Cherokee type steering box is top of our to do list. Then the Bilsteins We have the boxed rear LCA's that we've yet to install with the sway bar.

I'm following this thread because the above mentioned upgrades have been somewhat homogenized in our hobby. The front suspension? Still kind of murky with many products, many opinions, and no standard product solution that is user friendly and offers great value. I'm talking about a street car here, to weed out the "it depends on what you want" discussions where people start bringing the track into the equation. So in this case I'm wondering if the upgrades that you've completed are maybe as far as we go with ours.

[JLMounce]

For a street car that is cruised around town an on the highway, save your money. the stock pieces are good as long as you've got decent springs shocks and bushings in them. Just put a modern alignment on it and go have fun.

If you're canyon carving, auto-xing or doing high performance style driving events, that's when the upgrades will start to shine.

There are three basic problems with the GM short long arm suspension that need resolved and 1 problem with the cars in general.

1. Generally speaking GM cars are horribly undersprung and damped. They need stiffer springs and better damping
2. The GM SLA suspension suffers from a spindle height deficit that causes positive camber gain in bump, which limits traction the harder you turn
3. The SLA suspension has almost no positive caster in it. This was likely done because most cars could be equipped with or without power steering
4. There's too much bump steer

If you don't ever throw the car into corners and don't need a lot of cornering grip, you don't need to really address the camber curve. Adding positive caster is really beneficial though. Not only does it create a more stable ride at speed (helpful with highway cruising) but it also adds negative camper as steering angle changes. Reducing bump steer makes the car easier to track straight, especially on uneven and bumpy surfaces.

So for just a street car, I advocate for front and rear sway bars, an aftermarket spring with about an inch of lowering built into it, a quality shock like a bilstien HD or a koni red and an alignment that is closer to modern specs. Set it with about -.5* camber, as much positive caster as the factory arms will allow and toe at zero or 1/16th" in.

That car will ride well, turn better and track straighter without breaking the bank. If you want, you can put a half in tall ball joint in the stock upper arm which doesn't fix the negative camber gain issue, but does help it slightly. The pro-forged tall joints aren't overly expensive and are fine for street use.

[goatwgn]

Will adding the taller ball joints cause any clearance issues with the rims?? I have 15x7 rims. Also, thinking of poly control arm bushings, wondering how they would affect ride. I do think they would allow better movement, as they don't work with the binding that rubber bushings do. I have UMI adjustable rear upper control arms with urethane bushings, and the rear seems to move more easily with them.

[JLMounce]

You would need to measure your wheel specifically. There is a possibility that you could run I to clearance issues, but it’s unlikely.

If you are keeping your factory springs, I would continue to use rubber bushings. That binding in the arm is actually adding wheel rate which these cars don’t have enough of to begin with.

If you’re going to an aftermarket spring you can certainly go poly or solid.

[goatwgn]

Thanks for the information and insight.

[gtorich]

Originally Posted by Geoff

Did exactly what you are contemplating on my GTO & noticed ZERO difference......well, er, except for a lighter wallet.

Love hearing this, since i bought the upper and lower control arms with the 0.9 uppers and the 0.5 lowers..........not installed yet........oh boy. lol

Rich

[Scarebird]

Tall ball joints, tubular upper, Konis, heavy sway bars, 442 springs - it does handle better than my friend's 70 SX ragtop. Now fitted with a Delphi box - should make the biggest difference/

[ZeGermanHam]

Originally Posted by gtorich

Love hearing this, since i bought the upper and lower control arms with the 0.9 uppers and the 0.5 lowers..........not installed yet........oh boy. lol

Rich

There are plenty of videos on YouTube showing the benefits of tubular suspension and tall ball joints on A-bodies to make you feel comfortable with your purchase.

[LATECH]

Put A grand cherokee box on mine.
Put tubular uppers on with tall ball joints.

The tubular uppers were designed to add 3-4 degrees positive caster .

The uppers with more caster gave a LOT better downroad feel and stability IMHO.

The upper tall ball joints, I havent noticed any difference , and probably wont and I wont be driving quite like the Dukes of Hazzard.

The steering box was a huge improvement. Better downroad feel and WAY better turning radius when parking. Very noticeable at the last CAR show I was at.

I watched a guy in a 65 A body see saw his rig into a parking spot , and when I parked it was a simple , pull forward, turn the wheel and back in.
I have seen the difference and have driven the difference. There is a big difference.

I cant say I have noticed any difference from the "tall" upper ball joints. I probably wont.

I also have Spohn performance upper and lower trailing arms holding my rear end in place. That move eliminated wheel hop, and when I punch it, the car digs in with both tires (as skiiny as they are) and launches quite well.

It wasnt that way with the flimsy girly man rear trailing arms that came from the factory.
Good luck

[67GTONUT]

When I installed the UMI Upper and Lower FCA's w/ tall Upper Ball Joints.... I did notice a really nice difference...... When I threw it into a corner, with the much improved Camber curve...... the outside wheel would almost seem to dig harder..... I would literally have to dial some steering out of it once into the corner.....