[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by jww

Prayers sent to all those on board and their heartbroken families.........
Only in a copter one time but seems like these things take a lot of innocent lives!!
No interest in riding another one

But you WILL drive down a highway in a vehicle that claims 40,000+ lives per year.....

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

But you WILL drive down a highway in a vehicle that claims 40,000+ lives per year.....

Seriously? Do cars freefall a thousand feet to the ground due to mechanical failures?

[Chris65LeMans]

A local update says the copter hit a “mountain” (at 1,700 feet) in rough terrain where it left a crater, marks from the rotor strike and pieces of the rotor before it tumbled down the hill, scattered, and burned.

The pilot circled the LA Zoo for 15 minutes waiting for the fog to improve. It didn’t, so he continued on anyways.

Fog and visibility were really bad, yet the pilot was flying visually - rather than with instruments. That struck me as weird - the Sikorsky is a very high dollar aircraft, and flying it visually in bad weather seems almost like flying a G50 visually. (But I don’t know much about helicopters.)

A recording of communication between the pilot and air traffic control is on You Tube. There was no radio contact in the Moments before the crash since the pilot was flying so low in the canyons.

Anything’s possible, but everything is pointing to pilot error. They should have landed at Burbank Airport and drove the rest of the way - but that would probably make them late, so they risked it.

[george kujanski]

Sounds like CFIT (Controlled Flight Into Terrain). Poor decision to fly regardless of mention possible mech failure. This morning news says the pilot requested Special VFR permission and the tower granted it. Still pilot's responsibility.

George

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

Seriously? Do cars f.reefall a thousand feet to the ground due to mechanical failures?

IF you'll exercise a bit of intellectual curiosity you'll discover that even flying in a helicopter is statistically far safer than DRIVING....According to readily available FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) data between 1982-2011 there were 127 helicopter crashes in 2011. Of those crashes, 18 had fatalities. The highest number of crashes was in 1982 with 273 crashes. 47 of those crashes had fatalities. The 2010 accident rate in helicopter was .82 per 100,000 flight hours. The fatality rate in helicopters is LOWER than the fatality rate in other aircraft (1.3 per 100,000 hrs. .verses 1.4 per 100,000 hrs.).

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

Sounds like CFIT (Controlled Flight Into Terrain). Poor decision to fly regardless of mention possible mech failure. This morning news says the pilot requested Special VFR permission and the tower granted it. Still pilot's responsibility.

George

George, where did you find that? There are so many stories floating around that it will probably take the actual NTSB report to answer all the questions.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Chris65LeMans

A local update says the copter hit a “mountain” (at 1,700 feet) in rough terrain where it left a crater, marks from the rotor strike and pieces of the rotor before it tumbled down the hill, scattered, and burned.

The pilot circled the LA Zoo for 15 minutes waiting for the fog to improve. It didn’t, so he continued on anyways.

Fog and visibility were really bad, yet the pilot was flying visually - rather than with instruments. That struck me as weird - the Sikorsky is a very high dollar aircraft, and flying it visually in bad weather seems almost like flying a G50 visually. (But I don’t know much about helicopters.)

A recording of communication between the pilot and air traffic control is on You Tube. There was no radio contact in the Moments before the crash since the pilot was flying so low in the canyons.

Anything’s possible, but everything is pointing to pilot error. They should have landed at Burbank Airport and drove the rest of the way - but that would probably make them late, so they risked it.

If this report proves to be factual, then it's an ironclad case of pilot error. One of the stories I read was they were in a hover waiting for the fog to clear when the engines "sputtered"(NOT likely with TWO turbine engines) with the helo crashing to the ground(indicates a main transmission failure). The other story alleged that the helo was on fire when it crashed (indicates an uncontrolled failure of the main transmission or of one of the engines...a problem on older, 250-C30 equipped S-76s).

[george kujanski]

I heard the this morning on CBS network news. Now, granted early TV reports on ANYTHING should be taken with a grain of salt but this sounded too specific.

In any case, I would say poor choice on the pilot given the undeniably poor weather, although he is supposed to be IFR rated, etc. etc. I hate to start blaming the pilot with only sketchy info present, but the weather was a known variable.

I wonder if that aircraft has Flight Data Recorder/Cockpit Voice Recorder?

George

[Chris65LeMans]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=B0pQfgi9ZqU

Here’s the air traffic control recoding. 3:30 is where it gets close to the crash.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

I heard the this morning on CBS network news. Now, granted early TV reports on ANYTHING should be taken with a grain of salt but this sounded too specific.

In any case, I would say poor choice on the pilot given the undeniably poor weather, although he is supposed to be IFR rated, etc. etc. I hate to start blaming the pilot with only sketchy info present, but the weather was a known variable.

I wonder if that aircraft has Flight Data Recorder/Cockpit Voice Recorder?

George

Doubtful. Part 91 aircraft are not required to have a CVR or an FDR.

[Stuart]

Going on and on about the relative safety of a helicopter vs. a car, or speculating about what happened before any facts are available, won't undo what happened. It's best to wait until more is known.

[Chris65LeMans]

Originally Posted by Stuart

Going on and on about the relative safety of a helicopter vs. a car, or speculating about what happened before any facts are available, won't undo what happened. It's best to wait until more is known.

Half-baked theories and Poorly-informed opinions are what Internet forums are all about!

On another note - I just learned that an area high school football coach lost his sister and niece in that same crash.

[Simple Man]

Originally Posted by Stuart

Going on and on about the relative safety of a helicopter vs. a car, or speculating about what happened before any facts are available, won't undo what happened. It's best to wait until more is known.

Plus look at the number of cars out there VS the number of helicopters. Not even a close comparison. RIP to all involved.

[Scarebird]

I lost a classmate in junior high in that very area when his dad was scud running in a Piper in 1978. CFIT. Same time of year too.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by Scarebird

I lost a classmate in junior high in that very area when his dad was scud running in a Piper in 1978. CFIT. Same time of year too.

Scud running is an excellent way to end up DEAD. Former customer of mine hit a mountain 2,500 ft below the summit scud running. It took the THP(TN HIghway Patrol) and the CAP(Civil Air Patrol) a month to find the wreckage.

[Half-Inch Stud]

@George, ; You listen to CBS news?

[george kujanski]

Yep, cbs network and cbs local news, Fox News, I take them all with a grain of salt, never believe any of them 100%, tend to favor the cbs because the local station seems to be the better of the rest of the locals.

George

[eaglesan13]

I didn't know what scud running was, so I did a search and found this video. Good explanation!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41nLtzYdQzE

[66sprint6]

Funny, when I first heard about the crash, it reminded me right away of Stevie Ray Vaughan. I remember that one like it was yesterday. Helicopter flew into a hillside.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by 66sprint6

Funny, when I first heard about the crash, it reminded me right away of Stevie Ray Vaughan. I remember that one like it was yesterday. Helicopter flew into a hillside.

Another case of scud running. As I recall, power lines were involved as well.