[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Alvin

From the workers who built these cars, who would have thought a worker who ordered a car could ride it down the line and get options added with a wink of an eye, and the built sheet never reflect it? This book puts to bed all the "experts" who claim, " Chevy never built it that way" or "they always included this when you ordered that".

I’d like to deflate this notion a little bit, if I may –

Keep in mind I’ve been in and out of about a dozen GM vehicle assembly plants over the last 35 years; sometimes as a resident and mostly as an “honored guest” (lol) on the new product Launch Team. I’ve followed thousands of special builds down the line, including 3 or 4 of my own personal vehicles.

It would be very difficult to clandestinely add content to a vehicle that was not called out on the build sheet - if there was any amount of coordination involved. Having done this legitimately for a living over dozens of product lifecycles the level of preparation , coordination and logistics to make changes in a production environment staggers the mind. All of the material has to be on hand, accounted for and flowing in order to keep that line moving. Shut the line down for any reason and the wrath of plant management comes done swiftly and like a hammer (…even if you are an “honored guest” …and even if it was not your fault).

The story about “the Corvette motor in Pappy’s pickup truck” couldn’t happen, because there wouldn’t be any Corvette engines shipped to a truck plant (other than St Louis assembly, I suppose).


Add a trailer hitch where it doesn’t belong, or (maybe) substitute an engine of the same size/shape/family as the broadcast item? Possibly, but all the inspectors (a dozen people) would have to be in on the deal too. Add an option with wiring, coordination across multiple areas or some other complexity? Probably not. It is nearly impossible to do even with a team of dedicated employees who are getting paid to make it happen. For a bunch of impromptu changes initiated on the fly? Even more impossible. If it can get screwed up - it will.

I’m sure you all know the story about Dimitri’s 421?

Back around ’65 or ’66 Dimitri T was getting a car built and it happened to be assigned to the Pontiac plant. He spent the previous several weeks gathering engine parts and creating a really nice modded 421 engine in the Experimental Engine build room. He took great pains to get it ready and staged for the day his car was to be built. As far as he knew all the arrangements had been made.

Imagine his horror as he watched his special hand built motor go in the station wagon six cars ahead of his. He and his team had miscounted, and some grandfather or salesman somewhere probably never understood why his wagon was such a good runner.

Those that know me and my history know I am a "never say never" kind of guy, but having done this professionally and personally - very difficult to do.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by charles bledsoe

Have relations gotten any better between GM management and the line workers? I never relized that so much turmoil existed back then.

I think so; the folks in Ft Wayne, Janesville, Mishawaka, Detroit-Hamtramck, Silao, Oshawa - all seem(ed) to go out of their way to make sure things get done right and have been very kind to me.

There are various degrees of union "militancy" across the different plants, as though they each have their own personality. I thought the book made it seem like the Norwood employees were a bunch of malcontents (perhaps more than they really were). My alma mater - Chevrolet Flint Assembly - was a very militant plant.

I will say this: if there is ever even a rumor of a strike....it's already over. They are going out; you can count on it. It doesn't take much motivation at all for the UAW to shut a plant down and the workers walk out.

K

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

I’d like to deflate this notion a little bit, if I may –

Keep in mind I’ve been in and out of about a dozen GM vehicle assembly plants over the last 35 years; sometimes as a resident and mostly as an “honored guest” (lol) on the new product Launch Team. I’ve followed thousands of special builds down the line, including 3 or 4 of my own personal vehicles.

It would be very difficult to clandestinely add content to a vehicle that was not called out on the build sheet - if there was any amount of coordination involved. Having done this legitimately for a living over dozens of product lifecycles the level of preparation , coordination and logistics to make changes in a production environment staggers the mind. All of the material has to be on hand, accounted for and flowing in order to keep that line moving. Shut the line down for any reason and the wrath of plant management comes done swiftly and like a hammer (…even if you are an “honored guest” …and even if it was not your fault).

The story about “the Corvette motor in Pappy’s pickup truck” couldn’t happen, because there wouldn’t be any Corvette engines shipped to a truck plant (other than St Louis assembly, I suppose).


Add a trailer hitch where it doesn’t belong, or (maybe) substitute an engine of the same size/shape/family as the broadcast item? Possibly, but all the inspectors (a dozen people) would have to be in on the deal too. Add an option with wiring, coordination across multiple areas or some other complexity? Probably not. It is nearly impossible to do even with a team of dedicated employees who are getting paid to make it happen. For a bunch of impromptu changes initiated on the fly? Even more impossible. If it can get screwed up - it will.

I’m sure you all know the story about Dimitri’s 421?

Back around ’65 or ’66 Dimitri T was getting a car built and it happened to be assigned to the Pontiac plant. He spent the previous several weeks gathering engine parts and creating a really nice modded 421 engine in the Experimental Engine build room. He took great pains to get it ready and staged for the day his car was to be built. As far as he knew all the arrangements had been made.

Imagine his horror as he watched his special hand built motor go in the station wagon six cars ahead of his. He and his team had miscounted, and some grandfather or salesman somewhere probably never understood why his wagon was such a good runner.

Those that know me and my history know I am a "never say never" kind of guy, but having done this professionally and personally - very difficult to do.

K

Excellent counter point Keith.

Off Topic: Today while at a traffic light a length ahead of me and to the right I noticed a '73 Stepside w Handicap tag hanging from the rear mirror. While looking closer I noted the "DV" license plate for "Disabled Veteren". Checking out the gloss black paint and panel fit/finish I noted this was a really nice, subtle, clean and good looking Stepside. It also had the aftermarket aluminum circular hole wheels that remind me of an OEM Chevy wheel from back in the day. Nice!

My only regret was due to staging, time and traffic I wasn't able to give the guy a big thumbs up before he turned right on red. From the limited view of what I could see of the driver, he looked to be around 30 to 40ish. It would have been nice to talk to him from my F150 & give him props for his truck and talk about our Pontiacs...maybe next time.

Pretty cool. Nice truck on a nice sunny day!

BTT: Echoes of Norwood

[Alvin]

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=10444.0

There was only one line, the only place to shift the order once a body started down the Fisher side was at GMs scheduling bank. Fisher scheduled builds and balanced theload on their side based on their needs in building the body tub, like no convertibles closer than 12 to 15 bodies, no Vinyl tops closer than 8 to 10 bodies, etc. GM had different scheduling issues, like A/C, R/S, console cars, but could care less about a convertible, or vinyl top equipped car so they needed the scheduling bank to shuffle the cars around to suit their needs.

[Keith Seymore]

Alvin - your post is timely.

I was in Wentzville last week, building 2016 non Saleable G vans down the current production assembly line, and was reminded of this comment:

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Add a trailer hitch where it doesn’t belong, or (maybe) substitute an engine of the same size/shape/family as the broadcast item? Possibly, but all the inspectors (a dozen people) would have to be in on the deal too. Add an option with wiring, coordination across multiple areas or some other complexity? Probably not. It is nearly impossible to do even with a team of dedicated employees who are getting paid to make it happen. For a bunch of impromptu changes initiated on the fly? Even more impossible. If it can get screwed up - it will.

Holy crap - what a mess! Somehow one of our 2016 Body-in-White front motor compartments was sent down the wrong accumulator line and so our pilot builds were out of sequence when they came out the other end. Fortunately the conveyor shipped an empty carrier (which it is never supposed to do) so we took a random 2016 motor compartment and stuck it at the end of our pilot builds, and then just relabeled our trucks, to get back in sequence.

Unfortunately all that horsing around got the regular production jobs out of sequence, too. I had to stand line side and physically give direction (ie, "...that one's right, that one's right, that one's wrong, that one's right", etc) until we emptied the system and started over.

At one point I counted 9 people standing around from the various disciplines (engineering, plant management, planning and skilled trades) watching one guy push the buttons on the conveyor, attempting to fix the issue. It took pretty much all morning to get back on track.

We can build a million vehicles pretty easily, but do anything to disrupt that and you can potentially have a mess on your hands.

K

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Alvin - your post is timely.

I was in Wentzville last week, building 2016 non Saleable G vans down the current production assembly line, and was reminded of this comment:

Holy crap - what a mess! Somehow one of our 2016 Body-in-White front motor compartments was sent down the wrong accumulator line and so our pilot builds were out of sequence when they came out the other end. Fortunately the conveyor shipped an empty carrier (which it is never supposed to do) so we took a random 2016 motor compartment and stuck it at the end of our pilot builds, and then just relabeled our trucks, to get back in sequence.

Unfortunately all that horsing around got the regular production jobs out of sequence, too. I had to stand line side and physically give direction (ie, "...that one's right, that one's right, that one's wrong, that one's right", etc) until we emptied the system and started over.

At one point I counted 9 people standing around from the various disciplines (engineering, plant management, planning and skilled trades) watching one guy push the buttons on the conveyor, attempting to fix the issue. It took pretty much all morning to get back on track.

We can build a million vehicles pretty easily, but do anything to disrupt that and you can potentially have a mess on your hands.

K

Please educate me: what are "non Saleable" vehicles? Pilots used to verify/check/modify assembly techniques, parts, fit & finish to be scrapped after testing, fleet lease future use, or?

Wow! I can't imagine how many times you've heard "experts" @ automotive gatherings and/or 'InterWeb' writings telling all about their "Dimitri" builds "snuck through the system" due to "special connections"

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Alvin

Please educate me: what are "non Saleable" vehicles? Pilots used to verify/check/modify assembly techniques, parts, fit & finish to be scrapped after testing, fleet lease future use, or?

Exactly. Manufacturing Validation Build - Non Salable is a manufacturing event to exercise the material procurement and assembly processes. The vehicles built are purchased by internal customers like Marketing, Powertrain, Pre-Production Build operations, Safety, Engineering Integration, etc, and can not be sold to the public after completion of their internal uses. These will have an experimental (EX) VIN to prevent their sale and subsequent titling for street use (they can be sold via "Bill of Sale", but not titled).

MVB-Saleable is the next level of refinement, only those vehicles have production VINs and can be sold, usually after a retrofit to update latest design content.

Start of Regular Production comes after that.

Originally Posted by Alvin

Wow! I can't imagine how many times you've heard "experts" @ automotive gatherings and/or 'InterWeb' writings telling all about their "Dimitri" builds "snuck through the system" due to "special connections"

Yep - it could happen but as the complexity goes up the probability goes down. Wish I had a dollar for every story I've heard (...and every story I've perpetuated...).



I'm always very gracious, though.


K