[peahrens]

Wow! I did a doubletake on this...dated just today and yesterday. I think I am may be the latest victim. Picked up my '66 goat yesterday after a cam reinstall. It seems to run quite hotter than before, with a new radiator. But, a last minute rebuilt water pump went in when they filled the coolant and noticed a weep hole leak. I don't know which pump manufacturer. Someone on another forum pointed me to you guys and I am glad I found this info. It may not be my problem but is a primary candidate. I'll talk to the mechanic Monday and if unsure of the pump / divider plates issue I'll probably take it apart and check things out...or wait until the new pumps are available (please keep us posted on that). Thanks for your dedication. Glad I got pointed here.

[Old Goat 67]

Thanks bud, we try.

Have you read the Sticky at the top of this forum? http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=411256


Charles

[Engine-Ear]

Excellent work!

THANK YOU, folks, for taking on this project!!!

[Old Goat 67]

Well "Somebody had to do it".

Seriously, we appreciate it and will a WHOLE LOT MORE when Cardone gets it out!

[PONTIAC LARRY]

This is great to know!

[BruceWilkie]

I applaud this effort.

Now it would still be nice if someone offered a rebuild kit for those of us with original to the car pumps that are finally starting to show seal leakage or bearing getting a tid loose. Especially those of us with the old 4 bolt pumps.

[rolling money pits]

dang!
awesome job to all. hopefully they get it "right" the first time out...
here i thought no chance they'd listen, much less "re-tool" the process for these.
as stated above, yes virginia, there is a santa claus!

[rad400]

Great Job to everyone involed in this matter. A great thanks to all.

[Greg Reid]

Wow...I've read previously the original thread about the divider plate gap but didn't know about this one until Charles told me about it.
I have to say, it's almost unbelievable that you guys actually got a company to pay attention to a few hobby car guys...when they could have easily ignored you and kept on selling a part that was still selling just as it was.
Like I said, practically unbelievable...

[Old Goat 67]

Thanks Greg,

Remember, a team wins a game.

We haven't won yet, but the game ain't over yet either! We are all in this together.

Maybe it wouldn't hurt for all to email the head of the pump marketing department there, just to let them know how many are really serious about getting a correct pump for our classics.

Charles

[Engine-Ear]

Originally Posted by Old Goat 67

Maybe it wouldn't hurt for all to email the head of the pump marketing department there, just to let them know how many are really serious about getting a correct pump for our classics.

Charles, that is a great idea!

Would you share the name (and email address, if available) of the person you suggest?

As a business owner myself, there is nothing like getting feedback from the field, and I believe that by contacting them we are giving them further business justification for investing in their water pump redesign / oversight.

[Blackcat]

I just have to wonder why it took so long? I remember going round and round with Cardone's engineers about the Impellers on the 62 Pontiac water pumps and the fact that they were sending people GMC impellers that flowed the wrong way! It took weeks of conversations and sending pumps and such to get them to change and help us. I had mentioned the fact that stamped impellers did not work as well as the cast ones and showed the ones I removed from customers overheating cars with stamped and that the replacements I put in with cast ran fine afterwords. Company's really need to listen to the community when offering replacement or re manufactured parts for cars. I wonder where my old thread about it went to?

[GT182]

BC... Charles has a way with words that can make the dead sit up and listen. I think he is truely the reason Cardone finally gave in and listened. The Techs at Cardone didn't want to hear about it as they kept saying there was nothing wrong with their pumps. Finally Charles used their own Company Policy against them and they more or less had to listen. That's my just thought.

Once Paul got there it was all over. They listened. All it took about an hour of 'show and tell' and they were convinced. No disrespect the Therese, George, or Tom; but they had to see first hand what was going on, and you could see it in their eyes that they knew as soon as they saw the gap with their pumps and the original plates we had. All I really showed them was that they were pressing the impellers on too far. Paul convinced them that shaving down the impeller blades was no good... plus some other things that were working against us.

Now if you could have gotten to the Cardone Plant back then and showed them in person, I'm sure things would have been different. Paul even tried but to no avail a few years ago. At least now they have the timing covers and divider plates to make sure things are correct for both the 8 and 11 bolt pumps.

[Old Goat 67]

I will speak to the person at head of pump management tomorrow and ask what email address I could post here.

I am hoping that they would be inundated with emails from us and would not like to post anything till they have been duly informed.

Charles

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by Blackcat

I just have to wonder why it took so long? I remember going round and round with Cardone's engineers about the Impellers on the 62 Pontiac water pumps and the fact that they were sending people GMC impellers that flowed the wrong way! It took weeks of conversations and sending pumps and such to get them to change and help us. I had mentioned the fact that stamped impellers did not work as well as the cast ones and showed the ones I removed from customers overheating cars with stamped and that the replacements I put in with cast ran fine afterwords. Company's really need to listen to the community when offering replacement or re manufactured parts for cars. I wonder where my old thread about it went to?

fwiw there are about 4 different factory impellers for 4 bolt pumps 55-64 some are partial length reversed curve some are fwd curved, tall and short fin. Plus there is a reverse curve full length impeller. Each has its intended application. 4 cylinder, early 55-59 cooling scheme, and 60 up conventional cooling scheme. 55-59 Pontiac or GMC are the same pump and impeller.

Here is what I forwarded last week to GT182.

There are differences in the 4 bolt pumps used 55-63. I'll give you these links for reference to sort thru.
http://forums.performanceyears.com/f...olt+water+pump

http://forums.performanceyears.com/f...mpeller&page=2

http://forums.performanceyears.com/f...olt+water+pump POST 2 is interesting.

55-59 reverse cool scheme used the forward curved short length tall impeller. The newer ones used short length short or tall impellers curved in either direction or long length impellers with a reverse curve. Plus different wheel depths.

Look through the pics in the links.

You really need to read all the links to sort out truth from misconceptions. All impellers rotate in standard direction btw. Impeller Curvature is a design function. back curved pumps can be very efficient and less likely to cavitate at high speed.

Here is some cooling info you may want to look carefully at as well.
http://www.pontiacsafari.com/EngineCooling/index.htm Note distinct differences from early 55-59 "reverse flow" vs the 1960 "conventional"

[Old Goat 67]

Originally Posted by Old Goat 67

I will speak to the person at head of pump management tomorrow and ask what email address I could post here.

I am hoping that they would be inundated with emails from us and would not like to post anything till they have been duly informed.

Charles

Gary & I just spoke with the head of pump marketing and she respectfully asked that we not bombard her with email's. BUT, she did say that the effort is on an active burner and they will see it to completion and let us know how the progress is going.

So, there you go guys, just hang in there.

Charles

[Engine-Ear]

Charles, at least be sure that those folks get a link to this thread. Maybe they could throw us 4-bolt H2O pump users a bone and be sure that they have the right parts for the correct application (hint hint, Cardone!)

[Old Goat 67]

We have sent them a link to this thread. They said they would MAYBE update us on here.

[67Dan]

Originally Posted by Old Goat 67

We have sent them a link to this thread. They said they would MAYBE update us on here.

I sure hope so and had to call Therese today to find out about my pump! They sure drag their feet!

Dan

[BVR421]

"They sure drag their feet!"

Probably so, but they have a business to run. http://www.cardone.com/english/club/ They sell an amazing number of products both new and remaned.
A big business of which we are but a gnat on the elephants back.

Dont forget our old Pontiac water pump purchases will represent maybe 1/1000 of one percent of Cardone's gross. LOL If they get a rep for having the best pump they are likely to get steady orders from the Pontiac enthusiasts so thats something to reward them anyway,
We are lucky they showed any interest at all. Cudos to all!


__________________________________________________ __________________________________________

"Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control. It is determined for insects as well as for the stars. Human beings, vegetables or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper."
-- Albert Einstein, interview, The Saturday Evening Post, October 26, 1929