[FrankieT/A]

The subject of this came up in another thread. So I put it here to see if there was any interest.
I upgraded my A/C in my 71 Trans Am using all GM parts but eliminated the POA valve, expansion valve and all other moving parts except the compressor of course(using NO aftermarket parts). Being able to buy parts at a local parts store is important to me. The upgraded system I used makes for 160 engine temp at 70MPH and 42* at the vent. And as a bonus I can get to all my spark plugs with ease and I can take off my valve cover without removing anything else.
My system uses the R4 compressor instead of the A6. You could use the the A6 if you wanted to, to keep a more factory look, however the A6 eats more horsepower. One of the things I don't like about the A6 is when head pressure gets too high it will burn up the clutch(the upgraded system uses the cycling feature that the A6 doesn't like). The R4 has a better mechanical advantage because of the crankshaft/piston design plus the clutch has a bigger diameter. Of course your cooling system has to be in great shape and the key to the low temps is the cycling of the compressor. It works on any GM car, any year. I'm doing one in a '61 Caddy as we speak.

My design is more for trouble free operation rather than originality. I drive my car alot and very long distances. I can't afford a break down far from home.
Here are some pics.

[FrankieT/A]

Sorry I think I missed this one

['ol Pinion head]

Looks good. Am glad you like the R4 set-up. Pulled the same original set-up off my '80 turbo car at 20K miles for weight saving reasons, have it all boxed & sealed up, eventually will get to that car. For space reasons, I like the R4 set-up better than the A6, that said my M22 4spd '72 is going back with its original A6 pieces.

[FrankieT/A]

Well again if I were restoring a car to all original of course you would need to use all original or original style parts. This particular car is not numbers matching. I have others, so on this car I'm going in a more of a pro touring kinda flavor. I drive this car a lot, functionality is a big part of my build. This car is fully loaded with options, tilt, cruise, PW, Pwr Locks, A/C, deluxe interior, just to name a few. In another thread I describe the four wheel disc set up. This car is a total driver!

[FrankieT/A]

Brake set up
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...errerid=166732

['ol Pinion head]

Looks good, gotcha on the resto deal. In the 80's, I briefly installed the R4 compressor on a '70 YZ engine in my '80. Used the tough to find '78 Bonne 400 compressor brackets. I've also done this swap with the 301 bracket, washers & longer bolts. My '80 was always in & out of my bodyman's, I got frustrated with it & mothballed it.

Is your julep green '72 HO Formula a 4spd or auto? I've only ran across that color two other times, cool color!

[FrankieT/A]

This particular set up is out of an '81 turbo, that's why the accumulator is behind the headlight. I considered installing the accumulator in the normal location but this way maintenance is a breeze. The brackets are a total bolt on. Cousin's set up uses a bracket off a 79 Lemans 301 car, and I'll admit mine is a bit cleaner.

[Squidward]

Nice! I agree with as much factory stuff as possible.

I replaced the 73 POA setup in my 73 Formula with a late 70's cycling clutch setup, A6 style.

I had plans on putting a similar late 70's F body setup into my 67, but bailed on that when I discovered the evap box wouldn't fit right with the fender wheelwell brackets. I will go Vintage/Classic Auto Air. I guess I have fallen for the clean firewall look and easy access to stuff. The stock 67 evap case is horribly huge.

I see you put the accumulator up in the front corner. That's exactly what I had planned on doing if I could've done my 70's to 67 conversion. It's the way I see it done on a number of modern GM cars, and makes things nice and clean.

[FrankieT/A]

I like the Vintage air setup. But I don't really care for the Sanden/Sankyo compressor. The S/S compressor works real good, has a lot of ears to make it universal, but, that's just what it is "Universal". In the seventies and eighties that was the most popular compressor for Jap cars that received "port installed A/C". That's the main reason I shy away from it. It is smaller and cleaner which is great for street rods and stuff like that. I think if I were forced to use Vintage Air I still would use a GM compressor of some sort(just to make under the hood look a little more original) either a R4 or A6. You really dont miss the evaporator case and actually the car looks better without it, but that cheesy looking compressor to me is an eye sore and looks out of place. Nobody says you have to use a Sanden compressor, but that's how vintage air makes their system more universal and complete. Every kit gets the same compressor whether or not its for a Ford, Chrysler, GM, etc. Now they only have to stock one or two part numbers for the most part. Remember initially making brackets for them may be a little expensive but once the engineering is done they are cheap to buy and keep on the shelves.

Knowing how to set up a car detailwise is a gift and most don't have it. When someone approaches a car with the hood up and they immediately see a Sanden compressor the first thing that comes to mind is, "this car is a non A/C car". If you used a factory compressor and notice there's no evap case, their first thought would be okay what's wrong with this picture, then ok there's no evap case, but it looks clean. I think it would be more accepted.
Of course that's just my opinion.
Here's a good example; you wash your car, but you don't clean your door jambs. People will notice that and not be impressed by the clean car. When you do clean your door jambs, nobody says, "Oh look this guy cleans his door jambs", but subconsciously the car looks better. Ever go to a show see a beautiful car, and what does every idiot(usaully someone whom dosen't own a classic)do? starts looking for flaws. It's human nature.
Sorry, didn't mean to go off on a rant!
This is just my opinion and have no intention of insulting anybody using any setup that works for them or they prefer. That's why there is vanilla and chocolate.

[FrankieT/A]

Sorry OPH, I just noticed your question, its an Auto. Nicely opted though, A/C, pwr windows. And of course Ram Air.

[Squidward]

Originally Posted by FrankieT/A

I like the Vintage air setup. But I don't really care for the Sanden/Sankyo compressor. The S/S compressor works real good, has a lot of ears to make it universal, but, that's just what it is "Universal". In the seventies and eighties that was the most popular compressor for Jap cars that received "port installed A/C". That's the main reason I shy away from it. It is smaller and cleaner which is great for street rods and stuff like that. I think if I were forced to use Vintage Air I still would use a GM compressor of some sort(just to make under the hood look a little more original) either a R4 or A6. You really dont miss the evaporator case and actually the car looks better without it, but that cheesy looking compressor to me is an eye sore and looks out of place. Nobody says you have to use a Sanden compressor, but that's how vintage air makes their system more universal and complete. Every kit gets the same compressor whether or not its for a Ford, Chrysler, GM, etc. Now they only have to stock one or two part numbers for the most part. Remember initially making brackets for them may be a little expensive but once the engineering is done they are cheap to buy and keep on the shelves.

Knowing how to set up a car detailwise is a gift and most don't have it. When someone approaches a car with the hood up and they immediately see a Sanden compressor the first thing that comes to mind is, "this car is a non A/C car". If you used a factory compressor and notice there's no evap case, their first thought would be okay what's wrong with this picture, then ok there's no evap case, but it looks clean. I think it would be more accepted.
Of course that's just my opinion.
Here's a good example; you wash your car, but you don't clean your door jambs. People will notice that and not be impressed by the clean car. When you do clean your door jambs, nobody says, "Oh look this guy cleans his door jambs", but subconsciously the car looks better. Ever go to a show see a beautiful car, and what does every idiot(usaully someone whom dosen't own a classic)do? starts looking for flaws. It's human nature.
Sorry, didn't mean to go off on a rant!
This is just my opinion and have no intention of insulting anybody using any setup that works for them or they prefer. That's why there is vanilla and chocolate.

Hey, I feel ya, Cuz!

Fortunately, my cars always have plenty of flaws to draw attention away from those smaller details.

I love to see projects when people are able to put together different years and applications of parts to make them work. I also prefer a stealth factory look, but I am not a purist by any means.

[gillyiowa]

FrankieTA, pmed you

[projectfolly]

FrankieT/A,

Aha!
I had the same idea and mocked up the R4 compressor set up on my '69 Judge project, back around 2005 or so. The Judge project ended up taking a turn to the restoration side of things, so I ended up putting all the original A/C stuff on the car.
I used the brackets and parts from a 301 car.

Interesting note from 'ol Pinion head that '78 Bonnevilles used the R4 on a 400. I did not know that. I'd be interested in seeing what those brackets look like.

I'm currently working on a non air '68 Firebird. I was thinking of adding the Vintage Air system, but like you, I'm not a fan of the "universal" sanden compressor. Dont get me wrong the Sanden is a nice, light weight unit, I just prefer the look of factory parts.

I wonder if Vintage Air kits work with R4 compressors?

I still have the R4 set up from my Judge project, painted, detailed and ready to bolt on. It'd be nice to use it all!

[KO]

This is an even better compressor alternative, uses original brackets, genuine GM parts, new 134a technology

http://www.s6compressor.com/products.html

[Cammer-6]

Originally Posted by Squidward

Nice! I agree with as much factory stuff as possible.

I replaced the 73 POA setup in my 73 Formula with a late 70's cycling clutch setup, A6 style.

I had plans on putting a similar late 70's F body setup into my 67, but bailed on that when I discovered the evap box wouldn't fit right with the fender wheelwell brackets. I will go Vintage/Classic Auto Air. I guess I have fallen for the clean firewall look and easy access to stuff. The stock 67 evap case is horribly huge.

I see you put the accumulator up in the front corner. That's exactly what I had planned on doing if I could've done my 70's to 67 conversion. It's the way I see it done on a number of modern GM cars, and makes things nice and clean.

I put a VIR system in my 68 Bird 400 4speed which wasnt avaiable with a/c from factory.
it was tight and had to bend the evap lines but it fit and was ICE COLD.
Frankie,is that an orfice tube system and if so what color is the tube? I use the blue Ford ones.

[FrankieT/A]

Originally Posted by projectfolly

FrankieT/A,

Aha!
I had the same idea and mocked up the R4 compressor set up on my '69 Judge project, back around 2005 or so. The Judge project ended up taking a turn to the restoration side of things, so I ended up putting all the original A/C stuff on the car.
I used the brackets and parts from a 301 car.

Interesting note from 'ol Pinion head that '78 Bonnevilles used the R4 on a 400. I did not know that. I'd be interested in seeing what those brackets look like.

I'm currently working on a non air '68 Firebird. I was thinking of adding the Vintage Air system, but like you, I'm not a fan of the "universal" sanden compressor. Dont get me wrong the Sanden is a nice, light weight unit, I just prefer the look of factory parts.

I wonder if Vintage Air kits work with R4 compressors?

I still have the R4 set up from my Judge project, painted, detailed and ready to bolt on. It'd be nice to use it all!

There is no reason why a an R4 compressor would not with a vintage air evap system. The compressor is just a pump.

[FrankieT/A]

Originally Posted by KO

This is an even better compressor alternative, uses original brackets, genuine GM parts, new 134a technology

http://www.s6compressor.com/products.html

That to me looks a Delphi compressor to me I could be wrong. But it definitely looks goofy. If you are just looking for a compressor that operates good, you could use the Sanden. There is even a Sanden that has mounting ears to bolt right up to our old style brackets.

The problem to me is; we have these old old cars with physically big engines of a certain vintage, when you use a compressor that really modern they look out of place, like they don't belong. Even though the R4 doesn't belong, it's not too far away. I think you kinda need that crude look.
When you see an LS motor in an old car, you know the performance is there, but I looks out of place. It has that smooth look about it. I have no objection to putting an LS engine even in my own car, but I probably wouldn't even open the hood. JMO

[russosborne]

I'm feeling a bit dense right now, but what did you do that allowed you to do this "using all GM parts but eliminated the POA valve, expansion valve and all other moving parts except the compressor of course"?
Thanks,
Russ

[FrankieT/A]

Use an evaporator from a 77-81. It uses an orifice tube rather than expansion valve, POA or VIR. Instead of the dryer you an accumulator. I happen to use the original condenser, but you could switch that too if you wanted. It's basically the later model system. Works on just about any GM any year. Depending on car sometimes you need to use a 73-89 C10 truck evaporator. All the accumulators of the like 77 through eighties accumulates function the same with the fittings in different clock rotations as per application. Hope this helps.

[russosborne]

That helps.
Thanks!
Russ