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Old 02-26-2021, 02:45 PM
poncho-mike poncho-mike is offline
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Default 1970 T/A ram IV question

Many years ago, I bought a 1970 WW block assembly, JW wheels, and a shaker assembly from a guy who had parts from a 1970 Ram IV 4-spd T/A. I ran the VIN through PHS and the car was sold nearby in NC. I was told the car was destroyed and the owner or a friend of his stripped a lot of parts off the car before it was hauled off. The heads and intake had been used on another car.

The WW has long since sold to a PY member, but I'm trying to figure out if I still have the shaker. I remember the shaker assembly had a dual snorkel base, and I think it was a 1971 base assembly and had a small metal plug (or maybe plastic) covering the hole for the 1971 vent tube.

For those of you who have a 1970 Ram IV T/A, is this the way the base was handled? Were there any differences in the base between a 1970 Ram IV and a 1971 T/A shaker? What top half did the 1970 Ram IV use? Was it the thin lip 1970 or the thicker 1971 shaker top?

I've got several shaker assemblies and in some cases the tops have been separated from the bases. I seem to have more 1970 tops than I think I should have, so I think one of the bases may be the 1970 with the plug removed.

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Old 02-26-2021, 10:06 PM
Tellyshavilli Tellyshavilli is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poncho-mike View Post
Many years ago, I bought a 1970 WW block assembly, JW wheels, and a shaker assembly from a guy who had parts from a 1970 Ram IV 4-spd T/A. I ran the VIN through PHS and the car was sold nearby in NC. I was told the car was destroyed and the owner or a friend of his stripped a lot of parts off the car before it was hauled off. The heads and intake had been used on another car.

The WW has long since sold to a PY member, but I'm trying to figure out if I still have the shaker. I remember the shaker assembly had a dual snorkel base, and I think it was a 1971 base assembly and had a small metal plug (or maybe plastic) covering the hole for the 1971 vent tube.

For those of you who have a 1970 Ram IV T/A, is this the way the base was handled? Were there any differences in the base between a 1970 Ram IV and a 1971 T/A shaker? What top half did the 1970 Ram IV use? Was it the thin lip 1970 or the thicker 1971 shaker top?

I've got several shaker assemblies and in some cases the tops have been separated from the bases. I seem to have more 1970 tops than I think I should have, so I think one of the bases may be the 1970 with the plug removed.
Hi Mike I can probably help you out with that can I give you a call tomorrow

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Old 02-26-2021, 10:46 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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Unrelated to your question, but supposed to have strong lead on who bought that 70 IV TA - new - in Aboro.

One of the small used car lots here has a small showroom.
Real old man runs it , and has had a later 70's GP and later 2nd Gen TA inside the showroom for years and years with car covers on them. Both low mileage.

He had a car on his lot i needed to view in regards to a wrecked car i was fixing for a friend. So i stopped in and talked with him to get permission just to view some things underhood on the car as a non-buyer.
That was fine.

I asked if the cars inside under the covers were still the GP and TA, said Yes.
Told him i was a Pontiac Guy, he told me he worked at DT Pontiac from late 1969 - 198x , before he went into business for himself with that used car lot.

Told him that it came to be known that a 70 IV TA sold new at DT.
Asked him if he remembered if they sold very many TA's in 1970 - he said they only sold ONE.
Ordered by a young employee at the time - Mr.HRG
Mr.HRG went on to run the dealership eventually until its closing when PMD folded.
He still runs the body shop portion of the dealership under his name.
I met Mr.HRG before in the early 90's , we bought a new Sunbird for my ex from him.
Took my 73SD up there once for him to see it, around 1993 or 1994.
Have not seen or spoken to him since.

Going to go pow-wow with him again sometime soon and see if he has the same story as the old man about the car.
Should be some kind of decent story to it one way or another.

The main building of the dealership is remodeled and used as a food pantry/thrift store type place for the no/low-income population.
But the body shop building has remained in business continually.

  #4  
Old 02-27-2021, 12:20 AM
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Formulabruce Formulabruce is offline
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Thin lip top. I sold mine about 12 years ago on ebay for more than I thought it was worth. Yes I am 100% positive it came off a RA4 car, I took it off myself in 1984 when I bought it off the wrecked T/A. It went broadside and slammed a pole sideways.

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Old 02-27-2021, 12:32 AM
poncho-mike poncho-mike is offline
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There were at least two 1970 T/As with Ram IVs in the Asheboro area.

Around 1984 or 1985, I ran into a 1970 T/A that had a Baldwin Motion style silver and blue paint job. The guy I bought it from only owned it a few months, and lived in Star NC. Before that, it was right up the road in Seagrove. It was fairly original car but was tired. It had a SR block with the original heads and intake, and I think it had the correct carb and distributor, but had headers. It had a 3.73 12-bolt in it as well. The car had been off the road for a couple of years, and the guy I bought it from got it in trade for doing a home repair job. I almost missed it. Several months earlier, I had a lead on a junked 1970 GTO. The owner was an older man that also had a junked 1966 GTO. I bought the 70 GTO, and while I was there his son came up in the T/A. His son told me it had a 455 in it, and I almst crapped when I saw it was a Ram IV. I did my best to buy it with no luck. Then a couple of months later, the guy's dad called me just as I was leaving for work one monrrning. . He told me if I wanted the car, I needed to bring cash to the courthouse and he would meet me there with the title, otherwise Elmont was going to jail. I met his dad in the parking lot, checked the car over, and went inside. Elmont signed the title still wearing handcuffs.

It ran strong and was flat until it got over 4000 RPM. I owned a couple of 455HO T/As by that time and I thought they were better performers. This was around 1984 - 1985, and I wasn't aware you could get build sheets from Pontiac at the time. I traded it for another 70 T/A, and later found out the car was originally a Ram III 4-spd car. I went back and tried to figure out the motor came out of. I found the guy I bought it from, and for some reason he didn't want to put me in contact with the guy he got it from. He agreed to find out where the motor came from. He got back with me and said that two friends or relatives both owned 70 T/As. One of the guys wrecked his car and was badly hurt, but they pulled the motor out of the wrecked car and put it into his car.

A few years later, I got a lead on some early T/A parts from a guy that lived somewhere between Siler City and Asheboro. I went to see what he had, and found a WW block with very late cast dates and a Trans Am VIN stamped in the block. He also had a shaker, a set of JWs, and a few other small parts (gauge cluster and dash bezel, if I remember correctly). The VIN on the block corresponded to a car found in Pete McCarthy's book that I think was sold new in Asheboro. I believe it was a Lucy Blue 4-spd. I asked what happened to the car, and the seller said he acquired the parts from another guy and never saw the car. About the only thing I got from him was the car had been wrecked.

I had a friend in law enforcement run the VIN for me (about 1990). He said the car hadn't been registered since the mid-70s and was last registered to a woman. The address was on a main road in Asheboro. I went by the address, and there was a strip mall there. I searched court house records to see if there were any other cars or real estate registered in her name, and found nothing. It's possible the name on her title was her maiden name. It was pretty common back then for guys to have fast cars titled in wives and girlfriend's names because their insurance was cheaper.

The search went cold about 1990 or so, and I ended up selling the block a few years later.

I would love to know if any of this matches up with the history you have.

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Old 02-27-2021, 12:40 AM
poncho-mike poncho-mike is offline
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Do you remember if the base had a hole where a vent tube would go on a 1971 style carb? Or was it solid in that area like the Ram III. I didn't think about it much at the time, but since the Ram IV T/As were built so late, I suspect they used the 1971 style base with a plug.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Formulabruce View Post
Thin lip top. I sold mine about 12 years ago on ebay for more than I thought it was worth. Yes I am 100% positive it came off a RA4 car, I took it off myself in 1984 when I bought it off the wrecked T/A. It went broadside and slammed a pole sideways.

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Old 02-27-2021, 01:20 AM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poncho-mike View Post
Elmont signed the title still wearing handcuffs.
Damn what a story ! LoL

Quote:
I would love to know if any of this matches up with the history you have.
Sometime within next couple/few weeks will go pay HRG a visit and see what i can find out. The old man who gave me the story is still amazingly sharp and keen.
He laid out the story immediately without any hesitations.

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Old 02-27-2021, 11:44 AM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poncho-mike View Post
Do you remember if the base had a hole where a vent tube would go on a 1971 style carb? Or was it solid in that area like the Ram III. I didn't think about it much at the time, but since the Ram IV T/As were built so late, I suspect they used the 1971 style base with a plug.
Poncho-mike, That is a cool story, but regarding the air cleaner bases, I believe all '70 RA for A & F bodies (T/A & Formula), both RAIII & IV, had the Holley fuel bowl clearance 'bumps' and the vent hole for the 7040570/573 CA Q-jets. They had a rubber grommet from the factory to plug the holes. I have both '70 RAIII & IV GTO Factory RA carb pans and a '70 RAIII Formula that all have the 'bumps' and vent hole. The dual snorkel RAIV TA base was a carryover for the '71 455HO TA as far as I know. (BTW, the Formula's RAIII base is not orange any longer and now semi-gloss black.)

Dennis
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  #9  
Old 02-27-2021, 11:49 AM
poncho-mike poncho-mike is offline
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Yeah, I wasn't handing over the money until I had the title signed and in my hands. And if Elmont didn't come up with money he was going to jail. Elmont's dad drove the car to my house and I took him back home. His dad was a good man, and he was very frustrated with his son.

The T/A with the Baldwin Motion paint scheme went to the Greenville SC area. I believe the new owner went through the engine and raced the car for a couple of years. I later heard it was destroyed by an engine fire.

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Old 02-27-2021, 12:15 PM
poncho-mike poncho-mike is offline
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SD455DJ, can you send me a better picture of the grommet that is used to plug the hole. I want to see if I still have it stashed away.

Mike

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Old 02-27-2021, 12:52 PM
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Formulabruce Formulabruce is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poncho-mike View Post
Do you remember if the base had a hole where a vent tube would go on a 1971 style carb? Or was it solid in that area like the Ram III. I didn't think about it much at the time, but since the Ram IV T/As were built so late, I suspect they used the 1971 style base with a plug.
I do remember it did have a hole, But this was in California . As I recall, the 70 bases had holes if California bound. It was stamped in ink with a date of April as I recall.

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Old 02-27-2021, 03:58 PM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poncho-mike View Post
SD455DJ, can you send me a better picture of the grommet that is used to plug the hole. I want to see if I still have it stashed away.

Mike
Mike, I don't have easy access to any of my cars, but I recall Ames sells a very correct grommet. It fits across the board, std. dual snorkel air cleaners as well as the RA/TA/Formula bases (pics of '70 dual snorkel air cleaner base).

Actually, the one in the picture is a plastic plug. We replaced it with the Ames rubber grommet.

Dennis
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Last edited by SD455DJ; 02-27-2021 at 04:03 PM.
  #13  
Old 02-27-2021, 04:51 PM
Tellyshavilli Tellyshavilli is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD455DJ View Post
Poncho-mike, That is a cool story, but regarding the air cleaner bases, I believe all '70 RA for A & F bodies (T/A & Formula), both RAIII & IV, had the Holley fuel bowl clearance 'bumps' and the vent hole for the 7040570/573 CA Q-jets. They had a rubber grommet from the factory to plug the holes. I have both '70 RAIII & IV GTO Factory RA carb pans and a '70 RAIII Formula that all have the 'bumps' and vent hole. The dual snorkel RAIV TA base was a carryover for the '71 455HO TA as far as I know. (BTW, the Formula's RAIII base is not orange any longer and now semi-gloss black.)

Dennis
There are differences between the 70 raiv lower air cleaner for the Trans Am and 71 for 455HO Ta

  #14  
Old 02-27-2021, 05:47 PM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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Originally Posted by Tellyshavilli View Post
There are differences between the 70 raiv lower air cleaner for the Trans Am and 71 for 455HO Ta
Matt, What are the differences. I've not owned either, so I could use the education.

Dennis

  #15  
Old 02-27-2021, 06:45 PM
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Norwood Norwood is offline
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Dennis, I’ll let a expert like MATT give the real answer but I believe the difference is that the RA 4 pan is shaped for use with a Holley

  #16  
Old 02-27-2021, 08:49 PM
Tellyshavilli Tellyshavilli is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD455DJ View Post
Matt, What are the differences. I've not owned either, so I could use the education.

Dennis
I’ll get them out tomorrow and post some pictures

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Old 02-27-2021, 09:44 PM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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Dennis, I’ll let a expert like MATT give the real answer but I believe the difference is that the RA 4 pan is shaped for use with a Holley
Hey Craig! Yeah, the '71 wouldn't have the "Holley Bumps"....forgot about those that are '70 only for the stillborn LS1 RAIV that almost happened.

Dennis

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Old 02-28-2021, 11:58 AM
Tellyshavilli Tellyshavilli is offline
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Default Air cleaner differences between 1970 RAIV Trans Am and 1971 455HO Trans Am

Raiv 70TA
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  #19  
Old 02-28-2021, 12:02 PM
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unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
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I have understood that most/early 1970 Norwood Firebird Formulas and Trans Ams had air cleaners with no hole, while the Van Nuys air cleaners had the holes;
I also understood that somewhere late in the 1970 model year, it was common place to see Norwood Formulas and Trans Ams with the 'Van Nuys' style air cleaner with the fuel bowl vent tube hole plugged.

My aircleaner is original to the engine going into my car, which is from another manual transmission Formula built the same day as my car;
My car is a first week of June car, and this air cleaner has a paint stamped date code of 3,20 70;
This air cleaner does not have the fuel bowl vent tube hole.
I hope this helps some.

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Old 02-28-2021, 12:17 PM
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My 7C Norwood car has the hole with a plastic plug in it.

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