[vertigto]

I appreciate everyone's input. I think for my application, I'm leaning toward the Powermaster 3655 hi torque OEM style starter. If I have any issues, I can always pick up an IMI or RobbMC.

Heaviest gauge battery cables I can find without getting into cutting my own are 2 gauge Standard Motor (A40-SD and A30-2D)...anyone else find differently?

[389]

If you have a starter/alternator shop take the original starter to them and have them wire it up for a super torque starter... The factory starters spin the engine at a faster rpm..

I bought a RobbMc and the cheap pot metal fork broke after a few starts.. Sure they sent a new updated one but if you know somethings bad why send it out to begin with?

[72LuxuryLeMansLa.]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I go either way but I will say if I go mini, I'll only use them if they have the nose cone (pinion) support. Robb MC offers this option and I'd highly recommend that if that's the direction you go.

Otherwise I have no issues with stock starters, with RA manifold and with headers. They have worked fine for me either way.

I always think that their is a problem someplace that impedes electron flow when I hear about hot-start issues and such. Or, the initial timing is through the roof to compensate for poor tuning. There is no reason a standard issue G.M. Starter can't crank a v-8....

[Gator67]

The last time I pulled the engine in my GTO I replaced the factory starter with a mini. After a couple false starts, ended up with a RobbMc w/pinion support. A mini is much easier to install than a factory unit, and I like being able to clock it to keep it and the wiring away from the heat. No issues in over 6 years now.

[i82much]

happy with my powermaster mini starter so far and their customer service is first rate. will see how things go in 10 years after many more starts, but seems to easily handle my 10:1 505.

[1965gp]

You will need to make your own 0g cables but it’s very simple

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by 72LuxuryLeMansLa.

I always think that their is a problem someplace that impedes electron flow when I hear about hot-start issues and such. Or, the initial timing is through the roof to compensate for poor tuning. There is no reason a standard issue G.M. Starter can't crank a v-8....

Correct. Usually that issue can be traced to a number of different reasons. Very high amp draw through old wiring, especially after the wiring gets warm. Ignition switches are another one. As contacts wear or corrode.

The starters themselves when they don't like to crank when hot it's usually the armature and unfortunately most of the cheap rebuild kits you buy today don't come with a new armature. On top of that the cheap rebuilt starters you buy at the local chain store, are in most cases rebuilt reusing the original armature. They replace the brushes, a couple bushings, and a few other inconsequential things. Then you're stuck with the same old armature.

So even with a rebuilt unit you end up with the same hot start issue.

If you can find good quality parts, they are pretty easy to rebuild, and you'll likely end up with a better starter than a chain store rebuild.

Last one I did was for my Formula maybe 25 years ago when we had a local electric shop that sold all the parts, for alternators, starters etc...and I replaced it all. I ran headers on the car for about 15 years, and RA manifolds the rest of the time. No heat shields for the starter (70 didn't have those as far as I know, that was a 71-up thing for F-body) It's still in there kicking just fine.


Even with that said, I do like the mini starters, if they have a pinion support. I just wish they'd start putting an "R" terminal on the darn things.

[llwta76]

On ebay I went to "gauge wire and cable" for my custom battery cables. Top quality made in the USA. They didn't cost much more than the boxed stuff one usually gets. And far above the quality you're accustomed to. Any gauge,any length.with connectors of your choice. They are A+. Larry

[Schurkey]

There's ZERO reason to slap "0-gauge" cables onto the starter. You're not even close to needing that much copper. Maybe--maybe--if the battery is in the trunk, you'd want "0-gauge".

4-gauge is fine. 2-gauge is more than big enough.

It's not like you're cranking the engine at -20F with thick oil in the pan.

Beware of almost all "NEW" starters. Most are Communist Chinese junk.

[Koppster]

I used these guys for my new cables, I have been very happy with the product and customer service.

https://www.custombatterycables.com/

Rick

[P@blo]

One of the best things I have done for my car is getting Powermaster 9610 permanent magnet starter. After needing an extra shim to set the depth of pinion engagement, it has been flawless. Great costumer service too as the shims had to be sent by
PM and go between the starter motor and starter mounting block moving the pinion depth. Chinese flexplate was probably the issue but PM made good and give their customer support a 10/10.

Money well spent and has been perfect for over 10 years so not sure if this model needs a support either as I never heard a 9610 needing one? My set up is not anything crazy compression wise but eliminated all my hot-start issues and has been 100% dependable. I also made my own beefy battery cables to keep the juice flowing as the 9610 instructions indicated.

[Old Goat Racer]

RobbMC ! And his customer service is second to NONE !

[grandam1979]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

My only complaint with the mini starters that everyone seems to miss is they never have the "R" terminal to supply power to the points while cranking. Not sure why one of these companies can't add a simple "R" terminal, even for a small additional fee.

While that may not apply to some that have since switched to some other wiz bang ignition system, those of us that still use points really benefit from the "R" terminal, which is why I've never installed a mini starter on my own Firebird.

I have a gpi starter and I’m pretty sure it has the R terminal. It’s a really good starter been cranking my 13.1 464 over for 8 years now. I had a gpi on my t/a before that 15 years trouble free.

[Formulajones]

Do you mean gpe? I get mini starters with that search. Butler has them. I don't see mention in the description of the R terminal and the picture isn't good enough to see.

[grandam1979]

Yes GPE I think I might have got it from Butler. I will double check next time I’m under car but all wiring is pretty much stock.

[68WarDog]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

IMI mini starter is all I will use and recommend to my friends. First, no reason to use a 1940's era hunk of iron that has a massive amp draw (plus it really, really hurts if you loose your grip and it nails you in the forehead). Up until a couple years ago I wouldn't care what mini starter was installed, but seems that what used to be a great product under the company names from Summit or Jegs now have some really loose tolerances. The IMI High Torque starters have remained a quality product.

0 cable isn't a bad idea if staying with the original stock starter, but the mini's have much less amp draw and don't need the band aid.

Totally agree . Especially dropping that heavy iron on any body parts

��

[68lemans462]

I run the ROBBMC without the pinion support. The unit has worked flawlessly for me and its about 1/4 as heavy as that stock beast! Would I buy it again? YEP

[HWYSTR455]

I use the Summit mini starters, have them on 3 cars, zero issues. I do run a ford sol to make things easier, and safer. If you need the cranking points run, just run a new wire. All the R terminal does is provide a full 12v around the resistor during cranking. If you remove the resistor, no second wire needed.

I run a 4G to the starter from the sol, it's plenty, especially if you use quality wire.

WireBarn.com is an excellent place to get quality wire, some of the best prices I've found.

Make you own cables, and that way you KNOW what you have. Too many times have I seen failures at the pre-made cable ends.


.

[78w72]

X2 on the summit mini starters, i have one on a 467 stroker 12.7:1 engine & it works great for 6 years now, even when fully heat soaked. running stock size cables & a 4-5 year old run of the mill battery.

think i read the summit starters are reboxed powermasters.

[Mister Pontiac]

As others have said, I too have both in my fleet.

1. RobbMC on my 67 GTO (with piñon support) and it spins like a champ, going on 10 years and probably 15-20k miles. 9:1 455 with headers.

2. Stock starters on my 72 LeMans GT, and 71 GTO. Both work fine, but both are low compression, stock builds (455 & 400). Daily drivers too, so they get used a lot more. Roughly 10k miles/year.

3. High Torque on my 67 Wagon with a stock high(er) compression 428 and RA Manifolds. Works great too. Not as much use though.

My main complaint is the starter solenoids on the stock units tend to die after a few years. Can't seem to find a high quality replacement solenoid that lasts these days. For that reason alone, I will likely move towards the mini's as the older ones die off in the coming years. I have a spare RobbMC on the shelf to replace the next one that dies.

Having said that, I much prefer the sound of the stock starter to the Mini. Stock make it sound like you're starting a real Pontiac back in the day. That's part of the allure to me. The Mini's could be starting anything.

So the answer is "Yes!" I think you'll be happy with whichever one you decide on. Just depends on what's important to you.