No new GTO or Camaro

[red70goat]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rabon:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by red70goat:
GM made a respectable musclecar by stuffing an LS1 into a Monaro. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The new Monaros started with the LS1.

Gee, sounds like GM stuffing an LS1 into a Monaro to me. Thank you for proving my point. Now where was I wrong on that one?

[rabon008]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rabon:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by red70goat:
GM made a respectable musclecar by stuffing an LS1 into a Monaro. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The new Monaros started with the LS1.

Gee, sounds like GM stuffing an LS1 into a Monaro to me. Thank you for proving my point. Now where was I wrong on that one? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me spell it out for you, IQ: The new Monaro didn't exist without an LS1. You can't stuff an LS1 into a Monaro because it wasn't a Monaro until it got the LS1. That can't be too difficult to understand. However, since you still won't post any pictures, this is the last time I will respond to you, at least until you do so. I hope others follow suit.

[makcrag72]

GM made a respectable sports car by stuffing an LS1 into a Corvette....

[rabon008]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Inquisitor:
GM made a rspectable sports car by stuffing an LS1 into a Corvette.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then GM added the Z51 6 speed tranny package and subtracted $20K from the price and added back seats and got one great sports coupe, AKA the '04 GTO. Note: actually one gear, fifth I believe, differs from the Z51 package, which, as you probably know, is geared for better acceleration than the standard 'vette tranny.

[red70goat]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rabon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rabon:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by red70goat:
GM made a respectable musclecar by stuffing an LS1 into a Monaro. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The new Monaros started with the LS1.

Gee, sounds like GM stuffing an LS1 into a Monaro to me. Thank you for proving my point. Now where was I wrong on that one? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me spell it out for you, IQ: The new Monaro didn't exist without an LS1. You can't stuff an LS1 into a Monaro because it wasn't a Monaro until it got the LS1.

I doubt that, but once again you prove my point. I'm sure the Monaro was concieved on paper long before they chose what powperplant to go with it. The LS1, as you well know, is used in many GM applications external of the Corvette which is why I have never contended that the new GTO was powered by a "Chevy" engine. By continually introducing new models with the same basic exterior format and powerplant GM continues to waterdown an already excessive existing inventory with a generic appeal, including the GTO. As such, I feel this will be Pontiacs' downfall unless GM makes a conscience effort to breed some exclusivity into Pontiac as their chosen performance vendor and discard some lesser GM lines.

[Mr_GTO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:
I doubt that, but once again you prove my point. I'm sure the Monaro was concieved on paper long before they chose what powperplant to go with it. The LS1, as you well know, is used in many GM applications external of the Corvette which is why I have never contended that the new GTO was powered by a "Chevy" engine. By continually introducing new models with the same basic exterior format and powerplant GM continues to waterdown an already excessive existing inventory with a generic appeal, including the GTO. As such, I feel this will be Pontiacs' downfall unless GM makes a conscience effort to breed some exclusivity into Pontiac as their chosen performance vendor and discard some lesser GM lines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


What did Ford and DC do since the 1960's? They all had the same engines. Were they watered down?

What other GM NA division has a 2+2 RWD 400hp coup?

[red70goat]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by red70goat:
I doubt that, but once again you prove my point. I'm sure the Monaro was concieved on paper long before they chose what powperplant to go with it. The LS1, as you well know, is used in many GM applications external of the Corvette which is why I have never contended that the new GTO was powered by a "Chevy" engine. By continually introducing new models with the same basic exterior format and powerplant GM continues to waterdown an already excessive existing inventory with a generic appeal, including the GTO. As such, I feel this will be Pontiacs' downfall unless GM makes a conscience effort to breed some exclusivity into Pontiac as their chosen performance vendor and discard some lesser GM lines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


What did Ford and DC do since the 1960's? They all had the same engines. Were they watered down?

By "watered down" I wasn't referencing the LS1 or GTO exclusively, but rather in the context of GM having a similar model line spread throughout it's sepreate divisions. Most of their cars lack any distinction from their competitors both foreign and domestic. The LS1 / LS2 is now found in 3 divisions: Chevy , Holden and now Pontiac. Therefor, GM continues to waterdown their own product by eliminating the individuality of that product. I don't think the average automotive consumer is going to care. I do beleive that the performance minded consumer would want something more individualistic. Therefor, a Performance Specific divison is needed which I contend should be Pontiac. In the 60s there was basically the Big 3 of which they had little competiton other than themselves. Stylewise there were little if any similarities to any Pacific Rim manufacturers. Givent the number of choices the consumer had then vs now and comparing the two is void of merit.

[rabon008]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_GTO:

What did Ford and DC do since the 1960's? They all had the same engines. Were they watered down?

What other GM NA division has a 2+2 RWD 400hp coup? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Might as well give it up Mr_GTO. He won't answer your question regarding 2+2 RWD 400HP coupe because it shows that the car is distinct. He still hasn't posted any pictures so, until he does, I suggest just plain ignoring him. Its fun proving him wrong (like the fact that the LS1 is no longer available in the GTO or the Vette and the LS2 isn't available in a Holden) but its getting very old.

[Mr_GTO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:
By "watered down" I wasn't referencing the LS1 or GTO exclusively, but rather in the context of GM having a similar model line spread throughout it's sepreate divisions. Most of their cars lack any distinction from their competitors both foreign and domestic. The LS1 / LS2 is now found in 3 divisions: Chevy , Holden and now Pontiac. Therefor, GM continues to waterdown their own product by eliminating the individuality of that product. I don't think the average automotive consumer is going to care. I do beleive that the performance minded consumer would want something more individualistic. Therefor, a Performance Specific divison is needed which I contend should be Pontiac. In the 60s there was basically the Big 3 of which they had little competiton other than themselves. Stylewise there were little if any similarities to any Pacific Rim manufacturers. Givent the number of choices the consumer had then vs now and comparing the two is void of merit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny, Pontiac, Buick and Chevy have been using the Chevy then GM Drivetrain engines since 1982.

I love how you avoided the Ford and Chrysler comparisons and for you again COUNCILOR, WHICH DIVISION in GM NA has a RWD V8 2+2 Coup outside of Pontiac?

[skepecs]

I agree. Didn't Ford use i'ts 4.6 engine in all 3 of it's divisions? If a manufacturer developed and built a specific engine for each of it's divisions you would have to add 10k to the sticker price.

[red70goat]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rabon:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mr_GTO:

What did Ford and DC do since the 1960's? They all had the same engines. Were they watered down?

What other GM NA division has a 2+2 RWD 400hp coup? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Might as well give it up Mr_GTO. He won't answer your question regarding 2+2 RWD 400HP coupe because it shows that the car is distinct.

Powerplant wise that makes the car unique. It is my contention for GM to distinguis itself from it's competitors on a performance basis it needs both unique exterior styling and a division specific powerplant, as in Pontiac being that Performance Specific division.

[red70goat]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rabon:

Its fun proving him wrong (like the fact that the LS1 is no longer available in the GTO or the Vette and the LS2 isn't available in a Holden) but its getting very old. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IQ: Read my post again. I believe I referenced both the LS1, as in the 2004 GTO ( that would Pontiac), the 2004 Monaro ( that would be Holden ) and the 1997-2004 C5 ( that would be Chevy.) I believe that is 3 divisions within GM... and the LS2,as in the 2005 GTO ( that would be Pontiac ), the 2005 C6 ( that would be Chevy) and soon to be seen in a Monaro application ( that would be Holden ) I believe that is 3 divisions within GM. If you don't think the LS2 is going to be offered in a Monaro you're not as well informed as you think you are.

[red70goat]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by red70goat:
By "watered down" I wasn't referencing the LS1 or GTO exclusively, but rather in the context of GM having a similar model line spread throughout it's sepreate divisions. Most of their cars lack any distinction from their competitors both foreign and domestic. The LS1 / LS2 is now found in 3 divisions: Chevy , Holden and now Pontiac. Therefor, GM continues to waterdown their own product by eliminating the individuality of that product. I don't think the average automotive consumer is going to care. I do beleive that the performance minded consumer would want something more individualistic. Therefor, a Performance Specific divison is needed which I contend should be Pontiac. In the 60s there was basically the Big 3 of which they had little competiton other than themselves. Stylewise there were little if any similarities to any Pacific Rim manufacturers. Givent the number of choices the consumer had then vs now and comparing the two is void of merit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny, Pontiac, Buick and Chevy have been using the Chevy then GM Drivetrain engines since 1982.

IQ: You make this too easy. Since when is a Buick considered a performance vehicle??? Both Chevy and Pontiac make core commuter vehicles as well. In that context I stated that the average automotive consumer would not care about a shared powerplant but that the performance enthusiast for the most part will.

[red70goat]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by steve kepecs:
If a manufacturer developed and built a specific engine for each of it's divisions you would have to add 10k to the sticker price. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IQ: Read my post again. On a performance rather than a commuter module I said nothing about each division having it's own powerplant but rather GM having Pontiac as it's Performance Specific division with it's own powerplant. I believe this can be accomplished without accelerating the sticker price by thinning an already bloated and uninspired GM inventory.