[wizard61]

Hello All,

This is my second post to this forum. So here is my story...About 12 or so years ago I used to be the automobile collection game. My area of interest was primarily Oldsmobile and Buick. I was looking for a car to have some fun with and drive around pretty hard. I ran across a 1970 judge clone that some guy claimed to be a numbers matching GTO. At the time I really didn't care because it had a 455 and a 3.70 rear end and would absolutly leave them at the light. I checked what I thought was the engine serial number and I believed that it didn't match. I thought that the guy who sold it to me had put one over on me. I wasn't hurt very bad because I didn't pay that much for the car.

Fast forward to yesterday... I was reading a thread in the Judge forum about an unfortunate person who purchased a 1969 judge and was now beginning to wonder if he had been had. The great people who frequent these forums were helping him to verify whether his car was a numbers matching judge or not. I was silently following the thread and decided to go through the exercise myself on my 70 GTO to see what I really had.

Low and behold, my GTO is a numbers matching '70 455 HO. Also, I had a stack of papers and reciepts from when I bought the car, but i had never really gone through them. Last night I dug them out and found an envelope from the PHS burried with in the reciepts. I do not remember seeing this befor. The car origionally was Baja Gold with a white cordova top and a saddle interior.

My question is should I leave the car as a Judge Clone or put it back to it's origional form? I am not real fond of Gold as a color unless it was a rare combination with the white top or something. Would I hurt the value of the car if I repainted it in another 1970 color like Palisade Green? It appears from the auctions on T.V. now there doesn't seem to be as big a penalty for not having the origional color as there used to be.

Anyway I was hoping for some guidance. I am back in the car game now after a lengthy haiatus, trying to re-learn what I used to know pretty well. I built a barn and pulled all my cars from storage and now it is time to fix them up again. I am interested in your opinions.

Thanks,

James

P.S. Here are some Photos, hopefully I have done this right:

[getmygoat]

Given the way it looks right now, I doubt you would see payback on a switch to original colors, etc. Especially since white judges are pretty popular and gold GTO's are not particularly so.

If and when the time comes that it needs a paint job, it would be something to consider. However, I'd rethink that palisade green choice.... One of the least popular colors, especially if its not original to the car. If you are going to go away from an original color, the sure bets are blue, red, orbit orange, silver (less so) and maybe maroon.

[The Boss]

I think the car looks great - leave it the way it is.

Color doesn't change the fact that it is numbers matching.

[70gteeo]

Your car looks great! I have the same color combo your car was orig. It took me awhile to get use to it and I like the color combo. I would keep the car as is and put your money some where else.

[70ra455]

IF you're going to restore then IMO it's worth more as a 455 regular GTO than a Judge Clone.

IF you're going to repaint Gold will be better than Palisades Green (not a good color on GTO's at all if you're talking about value.)

IF you want a color change (hate Gold that much?) then the following should be considered:

Black
Atoll Blue (if the interior is Sandlewood this is an awesome combo)
Pepper Green (another awesome combo with Sandlewood)

[mike nixon]

the car looks good as it is. if i were going to redo it i'd paint it gold, but i LIKE gold on these cars. i'd also do it as a gto, not as a judge clone.

personally, i'd drive her as is and get the bugs out of it until i decided what i wanted to do.

mike

[4SLASH6]

looks like a keeper.........i agree with most of these guys..if it has nice paint, drive it, sure looks good. if and when the times come for a resto, then you can decide which direction to go. i like um oem, but have changed colors to my liking. welcome aboard.

[wizard61]

Thank you all for the replies,

I think I agree with the direction of working the kinks out and driving it. I then think I will ultimately restore it to its OEM Specifications. The previous owner had added a few options and spent alot of money on what I call the foundation of the car. There is no rust, the frame and engine had been detailed and the whole body was undercoated. The engine and transmission was rebuilt. He added the 3.70 ring and pinion, Rear spoiler, 1968 GTO Hurst Dual Gate, Year One Ram Air options, a new black interior, and Judge decals. Unfortunately the paint was average at best. I think the reason it hasn't rusted was because of the prep work.

He kept all of the origional pieces including the old shifter, the old ring and pinion, and the old Non-Ram Air Air Cleaner. The question I have is, should I keep these added options?

Anyway, Thanks again

James

[scott70]

Originally Posted by wizard61

Thank you all for the replies,

I think I agree with the direction of working the kinks out and driving it. I then think I will ultimately restore it to its OEM Specifications. The previous owner had added a few options and spent alot of money on what I call the foundation of the car. There is no rust, the frame and engine had been detailed and the whole body was undercoated. The engine and transmission was rebuilt. He added the 3.70 ring and pinion, Rear spoiler, 1968 GTO Hurst Dual Gate, Year One Ram Air options, a new black interior, and Judge decals. Unfortunately the paint was average at best. I think the reason it hasn't rusted was because of the prep work.

He kept all of the origional pieces including the old shifter, the old ring and pinion, and the old Non-Ram Air Air Cleaner. The question I have is, should I keep these added options?

Anyway, Thanks again

James

If it were me,when it came time for a repaint,i'd go with the original gold and forget the vinyl top( i think they look better without it),put back the old shifter and ring and pinion,leave the spoiler on it and the ram air setup,ditch the judge stripes and put the "gto 455 cid" decals on in black and if you want a stripe,put on a 69 judge stripe that was an option in 70'.To me that would look good and be closer to stock. Just MO.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

You've got the best exterior/interior/stripe combo on the planet, as it sits. I like the spoiler done in white rather than black - myself, also. All your Car needs is the 3.07 gears put back and a Richmond 5 speed swap.

I'm going to be doing one in identical fashion to yours because it's my favorite appearance on a 70. I'll also be scarring a #s 455 HO Auto, it's even factory Red with 601 R/A option. Going to be Polar Bear White - Judge - 5spd Rich, and Driven Regularly.

Do it the way you like it best, even if it's Pallisade Grn. Let the next guy decide whether to put it back Gold or not. I can tell you Palli Green and Sierra Yell take the hardest hits on resale, if that matters.

Probably worth something around 20 now. Spend 8-10 on interior/exterior color change back to original - and it "might" be worth around 30. It's even money, as far as money terms go. I think it would be an easier sale as it is now, than a puffed up price after it goes back Gold.

The options are good for the Car, especially since they are already there. Probably worth more individually if you had to buy them now - than what they add to the value of the Car.

[wizard61]

Thanks Again for all your responses.

The first thing to change will be the 3.70 rear end ratio. That is probably also why the A/C compressor was not working. It probably couldn't handle the RPM's at highway speeds. Then I think I'll just drive it and work out the small stuff. By then the paint will probably be in need of replacing. Thats when I'll probably go back with the OEM color scheme.

Thanks for all your input.

James

[78 GHOST]

Interesting..

I too bought a 1970 "GTO" that was being converted to a "Judge." Frankly, I was very skeptical about either claim. I paid what I felt to be appropriate for a reasonably rust free 455 car.

Then I get it home and discover with the help of a friend that it is indeed a matching numbers car, and the GTO claim looks legit. PHS confirmed this. The "Judge" thing was never true and I've removed all references on my car.

After enjoying it a few years and driving it around a bit, I decided to rip it apart and perform a frame off restoration.

While I've enjoyed the process, if not the writing of the checks, I'm happy it's nearing an end. I've built the car to suit my tastes, which are subtle modifications to enhance the driving experience without ruining the classic appeal.

I recognize the car will only be original once. Any restoration or modification removes this unique status. Despite my car being a matching numbers car, I felt safe making a few changes due to the fact that no matter what, it's not original anymore.

To me, it's important to do what makes you the happiest with the car. If preserving history is your thing, go for it. Try to imagine the car has no special value, and decide what you would do if it were just another old car you like.

[Pontirag]

enjoy your beautiful car. Nay sayers always gotta poo poo someone else's fun. liberals!