THE LOBBY A gathering place. Introductions, sports, showin' off your ride, birthday-anniversary-milestone, achievements, family oriented humor.

          
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-09-2019, 10:46 PM
spartazoo's Avatar
spartazoo spartazoo is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Michigan
Posts: 859
Default Who ended up buying the 70 455HO Ram Air GTO on eBay?

I have been watching this one. Not the most flattering color combo, but a fascinating car none the less.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

__________________
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

1966 GTO Hardtop - PS 14.84 @ 97mph
  #2  
Old 09-10-2019, 07:40 AM
spartazoo's Avatar
spartazoo spartazoo is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Michigan
Posts: 859
Default

Here is a link to the finished auction. Interesting car.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/392401574618?ul_noapp=true

__________________
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

1966 GTO Hardtop - PS 14.84 @ 97mph
  #3  
Old 09-10-2019, 07:51 AM
HO LEMANS's Avatar
HO LEMANS HO LEMANS is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 151
Default axle ratio

Am I off or is it strange that it came with an M-21 and a 3.31 axle ratio ??
I always thought the 21's were for 3.90 and steeper?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	axle.jpg
Views:	111
Size:	23.5 KB
ID:	519848  

__________________
NEVER DRINK DOWN STREAM FROM THE HERD
  #4  
Old 09-10-2019, 08:56 AM
Half-Inch Stud's Avatar
Half-Inch Stud Half-Inch Stud is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: BlueBell, PA or AL U.S.A.
Posts: 18,457
Default

Notice the M21 says HD...TH400 output shaft (and 1.00" countershaft).

What were the original colors?
Leather Seats sound nice & rare...condition probably cracked dry and need reskinned.

  #5  
Old 09-10-2019, 09:04 AM
Stuart's Avatar
Stuart Stuart is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 7,938
Default

It was sierra yellow with a white vinyl top, and didn't meet the reserve. I didn't see anything that said it had leather seats.

  #6  
Old 09-10-2019, 09:18 AM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: INJUN Territory, Red State Merica!
Posts: 9,567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HO LEMANS View Post
Am I off or is it strange that it came with an M-21 and a 3.31 axle ratio ??
I always thought the 21's were for 3.90 and steeper?
'70 455 GTO's with a Muncie 4spd recieved the DP coded M21 whether 3.31 or 3.55 rear axle.

'71 & 72 A-body's factory equipped w 455 HO engines recieved an M22 when 4spd was ordered. Again a 2.20 first gear Muncie mated with a 3.31 rear axle (AC cars), or a 3.55 axle in non AC applications.

__________________
Buzzards gotta eat... same as worms.
  #7  
Old 09-10-2019, 09:22 AM
HO LEMANS's Avatar
HO LEMANS HO LEMANS is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 151
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head View Post
'70 455 GTO's with a Muncie 4spd recieved the DP coded M21 whether 3.31 or 3.55 rear axle.

'71 & 72 A-body's factory equipped w 455 HO engines recieved an M22 when 4spd was ordered. Again a 2.20 first gear Muncie mated with a 3.31 rear axle (AC cars), or a 3.55 axle in non AC applications.
Interesting! I was not aware of that thank you

__________________
NEVER DRINK DOWN STREAM FROM THE HERD
  #8  
Old 09-10-2019, 09:30 AM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: INJUN Territory, Red State Merica!
Posts: 9,567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud View Post
Notice the M21 says HD...TH400 output shaft (and 1.00" countershaft).

What were the original colors?
Leather Seats sound nice & rare...condition probably cracked dry and need reskinned.
the '70 M21 Muncies used in Pontiac Abodys both used the small output shaft. Big output shaft Muncies had to wait til '71 Pontiac models arrived.

The '70 M21 coded DL was used in 3.90 & 4.33 axle applications.
'70 M21 coded DP was used in 3.31 & 3.55 axle 455 GTO applications.

The difference in these two M21's came down to different tooth count speedo drive gears for each transmission.

Leather seat upholstery was not factory optional in '70 GT0's. Leather seat upholstery was avail in few colors for '69 & 70 GrandPrixs.

__________________
Buzzards gotta eat... same as worms.
  #9  
Old 09-10-2019, 09:45 AM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,419
Default

All the 455 cars got close ratio boxes when built with 4speeds.
3.55 was highest # axle with 455 GTO's


Quote:
None of the GTO guys on the forums believed me that I owned this car until I posted the build sheet.
Wonder which forum(s) that happened on ?


Believe this is 2nd time this car has been flipped via eBay

  #10  
Old 09-10-2019, 10:21 AM
dstryr's Avatar
dstryr dstryr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 134
Default

That's an interesting color combination. My brother's 67 Firebird 400 car was mayfair maize with a cameo ivory painted top though its been dark blue for probably 30-40 years now..

__________________
.
dstryr, since 1986
.
  #11  
Old 09-10-2019, 11:56 AM
71GP76TA's Avatar
71GP76TA 71GP76TA is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: rural California
Posts: 1,815
Default

I had a '69 GP SJ that was sold new at the same dealership in Visalia. It was vedero green on saddle leather with a green vinyl top,

__________________
Current Pontiacs -

1973 Formula SD455 - #'s auto orig paint
1972 Trans Am - 4 speed orig paint
1974 Formula 400 - Ram Air automatic
1966 2+2 convertible - 421 4bbl automatic
1967 Grand Prix - 4 speed orig paint
1967 GTO - 4 speed orig paint 35k orig miles
  #12  
Old 09-10-2019, 02:08 PM
SRR's Avatar
SRR SRR is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 1,225
Default 70 GTO

Neat car. I had a 70 GTO 455 4 speed car. No AC and it was manual steering and non power drum brakes. It was a bear to drive.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20180929_194158.jpg
Views:	131
Size:	32.9 KB
ID:	519871  

__________________
“Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan Press On! has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.”
― Calvin Coolidge
  #13  
Old 09-10-2019, 05:01 PM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: INJUN Territory, Red State Merica!
Posts: 9,567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spartazoo View Post
I have been watching this one. Not the most flattering color combo, but a fascinating car none the less.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Appears to be a really solid specimen with born with WA coded 455 engine, optional RamAir, original drivetrain. The color combo is not the best, but neither are pics (presentation). That said the car should make someone a really nice project, & completed, seldom will the owner run across another. At 14K top bid, would have thought this project would have sold. Have been paying attention to selling prices on 70 455 RA 4spds both as projects & as completed cars for many years, as have one tucked away. While rare in their own light, they have not been bringing the coin 4spd RAIII 70 Judges have, yet they will run similar $$$$$ to properly restore, just my .02.

__________________
Buzzards gotta eat... same as worms.
  #14  
Old 09-10-2019, 06:11 PM
Rocco Testa's Avatar
Rocco Testa Rocco Testa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Warwick New York
Posts: 181
Default

Does anybody know if you could have ordered a Judge with that engine combo. When I was in high school my friend had a new 455HO GTO 4 speed car but I'm not sure if he had the RA package on his car.

  #15  
Old 09-10-2019, 06:37 PM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: INJUN Territory, Red State Merica!
Posts: 9,567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocco Testa View Post
Does anybody know if you could have ordered a Judge with that engine combo. When I was in high school my friend had a new 455HO GTO 4 speed car but I'm not sure if he had the RA package on his car.
Yes, 17 '70 GTO's were factory equipped with the Judge option & L75 455 engine with RA aircleaner. No Ram Air manifolds/ RA head pipes just standard '70 GTO exhaust system.

__________________
Buzzards gotta eat... same as worms.
  #16  
Old 09-10-2019, 06:40 PM
70GPSJ455 70GPSJ455 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 1
Default

I should have kept mine. 455 RA 4speed cardinal red black interior. 43000 miles Sold 10 years ago. Ended up getting restored and sold overseas.

  #17  
Old 09-10-2019, 06:58 PM
Heybuck's Avatar
Heybuck Heybuck is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Melbourne - Australia.
Posts: 1,671
Default

Interesting contradiction in his description:

First part of the ad says:
This GTO has never been involved in a collision or accident that I know of.

Lower down in the ad he says:
Appears that someone replaced /repaired passenger rear quarter. The car came to me this way, and wasnt noticed until the car was in my possession, and I chipped off some bondo.

What else is it hiding????

__________________
To laugh at men of sense is the privilege of fools.
  #18  
Old 09-10-2019, 07:10 PM
Baron Von Zeppelin Baron Von Zeppelin is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,419
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head View Post
Yes, 17 '70 GTO's were factory equipped with the Judge option & L75 455 engine with RA aircleaner. No Ram Air manifolds/ RA head pipes just standard '70 GTO exhaust system.
Will expand just a little more on those 17 Judges in 1970, for any interested.

It was a "no-cost alternate" on any standard Judge option vehicle.
In other words - any RamAir3 400cid car "could" have been substituted with a 455 HO/RA - at the same price.
Seems very very few were aware of the alternate.

You also got the RamAir # carburetor, and RamAir # distributor.
Along with 12 Bolt axle.

ALL 17 Judges were Automatic Trans
14 were Hardtops
3 were Convertibles

ONLY 1 of the 17 cars has been documented .
Its an all original low mile Convertible in Maryland

We have been trying for over a decade to locate another example.
Very hard to recognize/document them , they appear on PHS Invoice the same as a typical Ram3 Auto Judge , due to "no-cost alternate" of the 455HO/RA.
Invoices only show items that have a cost involved.

You'd need to find a matching # car , and/or a Buildsheet.
The frame ID # is particular to the 455 also - but a frame would be a weak form of documentary if that was the only link still present.

Some guys "could" own one without knowing - if it was an Automatic missing original driveline. Or if it had the 455 intact - and they didn't know it was legit (suspecting it had been swapped in at some point in the past)


Last edited by Baron Von Zeppelin; 09-10-2019 at 07:24 PM.
  #19  
Old 09-10-2019, 07:56 PM
Half-Inch Stud's Avatar
Half-Inch Stud Half-Inch Stud is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: BlueBell, PA or AL U.S.A.
Posts: 18,457
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head View Post
the '70 M21 Muncies used in Pontiac Abodys both used the small output shaft. Big output shaft Muncies had to wait til '71 Pontiac models arrived.

The '70 M21 coded DL was used in 3.90 & 4.33 axle applications.
'70 M21 coded DP was used in 3.31 & 3.55 axle 455 GTO applications.

The difference in these two M21's came down to different tooth count speedo drive gears for each transmission.

Leather seat upholstery was not factory optional in '70 GT0's. Leather seat upholstery was avail in few colors for '69 & 70 GrandPrixs.
I find your response completely correct. No such leather except for GP ( and all ive heard was Black or Tan). I was not sure about the TH400 output shaft for 70' vs 71+. Thank you.

  #20  
Old 09-10-2019, 09:00 PM
Held for Ransom's Avatar
Held for Ransom Held for Ransom is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,912
Default

Todd, I can't believe they came with a RA distributor. If it did, why didn't they come with the RA manifolds and exhaust???

__________________
So long, farewell.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:04 PM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017