#1  
Old 04-01-2020, 04:33 PM
punkin punkin is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 295
Default 4500 Dominator On the Street?

Hello all,

I'm pulling the trigger on a 500+ CID motor. I've found a machine shop and it will take some time to gather up all the parts but there are a few things that I need to source and one of those items is a carburetor. I've been told by a number of people that my old 800 cfm won't cut it.

Butler suggested 1050...my machine shop suggested the same between 1050 and 1250. Holley is suggesting the most "streetable" and capable to be their 1150 Gen3 Ultra Dominator. Anyone actually using one of these on the street?

Thanks

__________________
1968 Firebird
IAIIa 522
340 E-heads
Northwind with XFlow TBI
4L80E
3.50:1 Rear
  #2  
Old 04-01-2020, 04:46 PM
shaker455's Avatar
shaker455 shaker455 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NH
Posts: 4,471
Default

Yes,
I run them on the street all the time.
I use adjustable external linkage so the primary throttle blade has more articulation.
Unlike traditional Dominators with internal linkage .
They are track oriented as they start pulling the rear open at a much earlier time which can cause many side effects on a street combo.
Good thing is... they can also be converted to external linkage.

FYI: Dominators are the most challenging to tune as the blade diameters are large ( 2" +) and very sensitive to even minor blade adjustments.

__________________
Carburetor building & modification services
Servicing the Pontiac community over 20 years

Last edited by shaker455; 04-01-2020 at 05:00 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to shaker455 For This Useful Post:
  #3  
Old 04-01-2020, 06:01 PM
77 TRASHCAN's Avatar
77 TRASHCAN 77 TRASHCAN is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 31May2013 Temporary home to the world's widest (that we know of) tornado. Lord, NO more Please...
Posts: 6,591
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by punkin View Post
Hello all,

I'm pulling the trigger on a 500+ CID motor. I've found a machine shop and it will take some time to gather up all the parts but there are a few things that I need to source and one of those items is a carburetor. I've been told by a number of people that my old 800 cfm won't cut it.

Butler suggested 1050...my machine shop suggested the same between 1050 and 1250. Holley is suggesting the most "streetable" and capable to be their 1150 Gen3 Ultra Dominator. Anyone actually using one of these on the street?

Thanks
Sounds like a candidate for a XE262 cam!!!

__________________
1977 Black Trans Am 180 HP Auto, essentially base model T/A.
I'm the original owner, purchased May 7, 1977.

Shut it off
Shut it off
Buddy, I just shut your Prius down...
  #4  
Old 04-01-2020, 06:51 PM
punkin punkin is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaker455 View Post
Yes,
I run them on the street all the time.
I use adjustable external linkage so the primary throttle blade has more articulation.
Unlike traditional Dominators with internal linkage .
They are track oriented as they start pulling the rear open at a much earlier time which can cause many side effects on a street combo.
Good thing is... they can also be converted to external linkage.

FYI: Dominators are the most challenging to tune as the blade diameters are large ( 2" +) and very sensitive to even minor blade adjustments.
Wouldn't be as much fun if there weren't any challenges. Regarding this external linkage conversion...would you have any recommended references/website?

Thanks very much.

__________________
1968 Firebird
IAIIa 522
340 E-heads
Northwind with XFlow TBI
4L80E
3.50:1 Rear
  #5  
Old 04-01-2020, 07:00 PM
shaker455's Avatar
shaker455 shaker455 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NH
Posts: 4,471
Default

Sure:
Holley has off the shelf units and I build custom units built to customers combo & live tuned.

__________________
Carburetor building & modification services
Servicing the Pontiac community over 20 years
  #6  
Old 04-01-2020, 08:06 PM
BLANK1's Avatar
BLANK1 BLANK1 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Pandora, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 723
Default

Shaker built the 1050 Dominator on my 461. It's an older 9375. He converted it to a two circuit and installed the external linkage. It has pretty snappy throttle response and is very streetable. Get around 12 mpg.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20190829_164910.jpg
Views:	214
Size:	60.9 KB
ID:	536018  

  #7  
Old 04-01-2020, 10:47 PM
punkin punkin is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLANK1 View Post
Shaker built the 1050 Dominator on my 461. It's an older 9375. He converted it to a two circuit and installed the external linkage. It has pretty snappy throttle response and is very streetable. Get around 12 mpg.
Thanks...in my searching I'm liking the Gen3. I'm reading good things about them in terms of tunability.

__________________
1968 Firebird
IAIIa 522
340 E-heads
Northwind with XFlow TBI
4L80E
3.50:1 Rear
  #8  
Old 04-01-2020, 11:56 PM
shaker455's Avatar
shaker455 shaker455 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NH
Posts: 4,471
Default

They have adjustable bypass air like mine which also is a nice feature.

__________________
Carburetor building & modification services
Servicing the Pontiac community over 20 years
  #9  
Old 04-02-2020, 06:46 AM
steve25's Avatar
steve25 steve25 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Westchester NY
Posts: 14,633
Default

If your not looking to exceed 650 hp at first and your working on a budget then to not have to also shell out another 1200 bucks or more for the dominator you can use the 800 and it will will be fine, in fact it will be cheaper to convert it when the times comes to a 950 which can still handle a motor that can top 750 hp!

Get the motor and car set up and then switch over to the set up needed to run the big Carb should you like.

If your not going to the track racing every weekend and need to win or atleast make it into the finals then adjust your build accordingly!

If you've only been use to a 400 hp motor then even 650 hp is a big change for you and the car to get use to and set up for!

Believe me, if your running on the street and the car is not set up as needed to completely hook up even 600 hp, then no one no matter what they may say or post up here can tell the difference between having a 600 hp motor under the hood, or a 800 plus hp motor under the hood so adjust your spending accordingly!

__________________
Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!

Last edited by steve25; 04-02-2020 at 07:26 AM.
The Following User Says Thank You to steve25 For This Useful Post:
  #10  
Old 04-02-2020, 07:14 AM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Liberty Hill, Tx. (Austin)
Posts: 10,385
Default

Of interest I'd like to know the HP goal.

On the dyno with a 4.125" stroke/ 450 CID combo we saw 20 hp difference between a 4500 set up and a 4150 set up, 700 hp vs. 680 hp. Both with port matched Victor intakes. My current 505 with a custom HP950 and a cut down Victor intake manifold, best pull was 660 hp at 5900/6000 rpm. That said these were not dedicated race combos, I suspect the torque curve could be a deciding factor.


.

__________________
'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE
The Following User Says Thank You to Steve C. For This Useful Post:
  #11  
Old 04-02-2020, 07:56 AM
Torquewar's Avatar
Torquewar Torquewar is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Dorchester Ont Canada
Posts: 491
Default

Congrats on the purchase , nice upgrade. I won’t get into what u need or not , lots of guys run the( big )carbs on the street.
I had shaker build me a 4500 series unit about 4 yrs ago. It was primarily a race unit but I ran it on the street and it performed fairly well.
He has the carb now and there’s some tuning to do. If u want one done he’s the guy. He more than accommodating , wont find a better guy for support.

The Following User Says Thank You to Torquewar For This Useful Post:
  #12  
Old 04-02-2020, 09:44 AM
shaker455's Avatar
shaker455 shaker455 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NH
Posts: 4,471
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torquewar View Post
Congrats on the purchase , nice upgrade. I won’t get into what u need or not , lots of guys run the( big )carbs on the street.
I had shaker build me a 4500 series unit about 4 yrs ago. It was primarily a race unit but I ran it on the street and it performed fairly well.
He has the carb now and there’s some tuning to do. If u want one done he’s the guy. He more than accommodating , wont find a better guy for support.
Not the same unit Andy,
Yours is a 4150 and OP is asking a bout 4500 Dominators

__________________
Carburetor building & modification services
Servicing the Pontiac community over 20 years
  #13  
Old 04-02-2020, 10:13 AM
Formulajones's Avatar
Formulajones Formulajones is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,794
Default

Like mentioned, dominators can be run on the street just fine if you know your way around tuning them.

Might want to get that engine on the dyno first though, and see what it likes before you plunk down hard earned money on a nice dominator. A good dyno shop usually has a couple dyno carbs laying around to try.

Dad's 571 ci Pontiac made 724 hp with a little 4150 950 HP that only flows about 880 cfm. Tried a 1250 dominator that Tony Bischoff uses a lot on the dyno, and even after dialing that in the engine only picked up 6 hp. Not only that, but it lost average torque throughout the curve. The 950 proved to be the better carb on the overall curve. Dad bought a brand new 3 circuit dominator that hasn't made it on the engine and looking like it won't.
I'd have to get into some custom air cleaner work just to make the thing fit, and 6 HP and a loss of torque doesn't seem worth it to him at this point.

The Following User Says Thank You to Formulajones For This Useful Post:
  #14  
Old 04-02-2020, 12:05 PM
Skip Fix's Avatar
Skip Fix Skip Fix is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Katy,TX USA
Posts: 20,541
Default

On my 500 I had a 8896 that did not make anymore than the 850/1000 HP 4150 but I did use the 2" taper spacer on a 4150, and it was before Jeff reworked the Dominator.

__________________
Skip Fix
1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever!
1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand
1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project
2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4
1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project
1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs
The Following User Says Thank You to Skip Fix For This Useful Post:
  #15  
Old 04-02-2020, 02:12 PM
punkin punkin is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 295
Default

Thank you EVERYONE for the comments and suggestions. I spoke with the builder again this morning and he indicated much as some of you have said. They did have a couple "big" carburetors available when the dyno time comes. Once the thing has been run up, the numbers would help to make the best choice later. He also made the comment that since this is #1 a street car and #2 weekend racer, it's not like I'll need all the power available at the grocery store. It seems I don't need to run right out and get one on order.

Thank you all, you've given me much to consider.

To Steve's point, I have been and do have a ways to go with driveline and suspension work under way. The money pit is open for business once again :-)

__________________
1968 Firebird
IAIIa 522
340 E-heads
Northwind with XFlow TBI
4L80E
3.50:1 Rear
  #16  
Old 04-02-2020, 02:17 PM
AG's Avatar
AG AG is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: NH
Posts: 3,240
Default

What is your power goal with the 500"?

__________________
1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
  #17  
Old 04-02-2020, 02:56 PM
punkin punkin is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AG View Post
What is your power goal with the 500"?
Targeting 650 to start. The emphasis to the builder is to focus on a way over-built street motor that will be driven with room for power adders for weekend track fun. A Procharger is my ultimate goal but that's long after my finances and other work being done to the car is complete.

__________________
1968 Firebird
IAIIa 522
340 E-heads
Northwind with XFlow TBI
4L80E
3.50:1 Rear
  #18  
Old 04-02-2020, 11:48 PM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Humbolt County California
Posts: 8,284
Default

How big a deal is it to install 16 hole annular boosters in a Dominator ? What is needed ?

  #19  
Old 04-03-2020, 09:04 AM
AG's Avatar
AG AG is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: NH
Posts: 3,240
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by punkin View Post
Targeting 650 to start. The emphasis to the builder is to focus on a way over-built street motor that will be driven with room for power adders for weekend track fun. A Procharger is my ultimate goal but that's long after my finances and other work being done to the car is complete.
What heads are you going to use? The 500 ci motor in my race car probably makes close to 700 hp without using a big cam , with a race weight of 3550# it goes 10.01. That motor would be challenging in a street car.

__________________
1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
The Following User Says Thank You to AG For This Useful Post:
  #20  
Old 04-03-2020, 09:20 AM
punkin punkin is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AG View Post
What heads are you going to use? The 500 ci motor in my race car probably makes close to 700 hp without using a big cam , with a race weight of 3550# it goes 10.01. That motor would be challenging in a street car.
Planning to use the BP 340 CFM round port E-heads. Haven't yet resolved on which cam to use. It will be a roller cam. Also not sure about rocker ratio just yet either. The car weighs 3660 (thats with me, 1/2 tank gas and the existing 455 installed).

__________________
1968 Firebird
IAIIa 522
340 E-heads
Northwind with XFlow TBI
4L80E
3.50:1 Rear
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:26 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017