#21  
Old 09-09-2019, 09:25 PM
krisr's Avatar
krisr krisr is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sydney, OZ
Posts: 1,433
Default

Guys, what Marv is talking about when he means dead head is that the return doesn't go from the rail back to the regulator, then back to the tank. He means the pump still goes into a regulator, then the other end of the regulator goes to a "dead headed" fuel rail, but the fuel return at the reg is still going back into the tank - this is how new cars work, they have internal regulators inside the fuel tank.

I personally run this GM type setup with pump/reg/bucket in the tank to dead head rails, my street car ran a fraction off 120mph @ 3850lbs weight (only a 400 remember...) so it works.

I'm now redesigning the fuel system to go back to a fuel cell but the regulator will be in the trunk with the single line going up to the rails, pump #1 will be controlled by a Jaguar (basically a ford) FPDM and pump #2 will be staged @ 100% duty if it's ever needed. This is basically to get around the delivery woes of E85 and longevity on the street.

No way would I ever "dead head" a "pump" like you guys are mentioning. Always use a regulator even with PWM controllers for safety, just set your regulator pressure at about 70psi and have your ECU command about 60-65psi. Lower the pressure from the controller at idle and cruise areas if you run BIG injectors on the street.

__________________
'71 Holden HQ Monaro - 3850lbs race weight, 400c/i - 11.4 @ 120
'66 Pontiac GTO - 389, 4 speed street cruiser

Last edited by krisr; 09-09-2019 at 09:42 PM.
  #22  
Old 09-09-2019, 10:37 PM
LPI's Avatar
LPI LPI is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 269
Default URL to Doug's build

Here is the link to Doug's build where he details out his fuel lines.

A very nice car and a very nice guy!

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ld-almost-done!

__________________
Holy cow Tom that's a dirt road...

www.luhnperformance.com
  #23  
Old 09-10-2019, 11:10 AM
Gator67's Avatar
Gator67 Gator67 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: North Scottsdale
Posts: 1,640
Default

I'm using a Vaporworx PWM controller and an in-tank ZL1 module, so no need for a return. The controller uses a fuel pressure sensor plumbed close to the tank. I should be at 700hp, and at that level I could have used 3/8 factory lines/-6 fittings, but ended up buying some 1/2 nicopp/-8 fitting and will make my own. I had the controller set up to use Fast EZ EFI 2.0 TB, but am contemplating different systems now, so will likely need to send it back to Carl after I decide.

  #24  
Old 09-10-2019, 12:10 PM
HWYSTR455's Avatar
HWYSTR455 HWYSTR455 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Manassas, VA
Posts: 14,658
Default

Yes, those are roughly copies of the OE controllers which are built into the OE ECUs, hence why it specifies a specific type of GM pump. M

My understanding is that some of the Holley ECMs that are compatible for replacement of OE ECMs actually have the same design as GMs, Like the new Terminator X line.

With those, you also have to closely follow the design of the OE stuff in regards to length, size, etc.

Believe FAST offers an upgrade to the EZ-EFI 2.0 to at least go to multi-point, but probably still better to go to the XFi.


.

__________________
.

1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger
Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be
  #25  
Old 09-10-2019, 08:45 PM
krisr's Avatar
krisr krisr is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sydney, OZ
Posts: 1,433
Default

I'm running an in-tank pump module from a VE/VF Holden Commodore, which is basically a ZL1, but the pump is slightly smaller. My module has a regulator built into it but when I powered the pump @ 100% DC, it gave me 80-85psi of line pressure. When I found that model of car uses a CANBUS fuel pump controller, that is when I sourced a Jaguar unit which works perfectly with the Megasquirt 3X. As mentioned on another page, the same fuel system design will be going into my in-tank fuel cell setup but with a staged secondary pump for E85. I'm a big fan of running a controller on pumps now! Mine is whisper quiet, you can't even hear it prime.

__________________
'71 Holden HQ Monaro - 3850lbs race weight, 400c/i - 11.4 @ 120
'66 Pontiac GTO - 389, 4 speed street cruiser
  #26  
Old 10-03-2019, 12:52 AM
KGTO's Avatar
KGTO KGTO is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID.usa
Posts: 1,695
Default

Where is a good place to get a roll of tubing? McMaster Carr?

__________________
1967 GTO 416 5-spd streetcar 11's on HP low 10's 150 shot
1965 GTO 10-71 Littlefield high-helix retro/Bird (untuned) 8.44 @159 3500+lbs 10.5W's SOLD!
1964 421 GP-Sold
6.0 cert. Fiat bodied altered blown alcohol Pontiac IAII-Sold
  #27  
Old 10-03-2019, 07:09 AM
HWYSTR455's Avatar
HWYSTR455 HWYSTR455 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Manassas, VA
Posts: 14,658
Default

I've been using the Summit brand, has a good burst strength and is affordable.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g2512



.

__________________
.

1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger
Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be
  #28  
Old 10-03-2019, 11:32 AM
KGTO's Avatar
KGTO KGTO is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID.usa
Posts: 1,695
Default

I meant to say stainless steel (1/2")

__________________
1967 GTO 416 5-spd streetcar 11's on HP low 10's 150 shot
1965 GTO 10-71 Littlefield high-helix retro/Bird (untuned) 8.44 @159 3500+lbs 10.5W's SOLD!
1964 421 GP-Sold
6.0 cert. Fiat bodied altered blown alcohol Pontiac IAII-Sold
  #29  
Old 10-03-2019, 12:53 PM
HWYSTR455's Avatar
HWYSTR455 HWYSTR455 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Manassas, VA
Posts: 14,658
Default

InLine Tubing carries it, but it's difficult to bend, route, and flare.


.

__________________
.

1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger
Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be
  #30  
Old 10-03-2019, 07:55 PM
KGTO's Avatar
KGTO KGTO is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Coeur d'Alene, ID.usa
Posts: 1,695
Default

The bending I can handle, as I believe I have a good bender packed away. The flaring may be an issue. But the fuel line only needs to be a single flare fortunately. I thought of farming this out just to get it done. My plan for the lines is just the midsection of the car and transition to bulkhead fittings which will then go to flex lines. I am just going to run 1/2 for both supply and return on the hard lines.

__________________
1967 GTO 416 5-spd streetcar 11's on HP low 10's 150 shot
1965 GTO 10-71 Littlefield high-helix retro/Bird (untuned) 8.44 @159 3500+lbs 10.5W's SOLD!
1964 421 GP-Sold
6.0 cert. Fiat bodied altered blown alcohol Pontiac IAII-Sold
  #31  
Old 10-04-2019, 08:28 AM
charlie66's Avatar
charlie66 charlie66 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,261
Default

I use these fittings instead of a flare . They work really well .


https://www.summitracing.com/parts/e...0erl/overview/

__________________
My Half AN Injun.....
  #32  
Old 10-04-2019, 08:33 AM
HWYSTR455's Avatar
HWYSTR455 HWYSTR455 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Manassas, VA
Posts: 14,658
Default

Yeah, those don't work well on steel lines, you need the full steel compression fittings for steel/stainless steel. I've posted that info before, with part numbers.


.

__________________
.

1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger
Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be
  #33  
Old 10-07-2019, 12:03 PM
darbikrash darbikrash is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: So. California
Posts: 363
Default

This latest EFI system I tried something a little different. I mounted a return style EFI regulator right next to the fuel tank on my '69 GTO, this lets me use very short supply and return lines. I have an in-tank Aeromotive pump. The main supply line then goes to the front of the car using steel -6 AN hard line. I find the -6 AN is the largest tubing I can bend out of steel using my bending tools, and is plenty large enough for my HP needs. There is no return line other than the short piece of push lock hose in the picture.



I was a little concerned about this as the regulator is quite a distance from the EFI throttle body, so I put a pressure sensor right at the throttle body connection. Once I got the car running, I data logged fuel pressure and I see rock solid pressure with no (unusual) spikes throughout the load range.


If there is a disadvantage, it is difficult to access the regulator pressure adjustment screw, but you only have to set it once. The advantage is that it does not require a long return line, and uses fewer AN fittings . The cost of these fittings is surprising- it adds up and can add hundreds of dollars to an EFI install.

__________________
1964 Catalina 2+2 4sp, 421 Tri-power
1965 GTO, Roadster Shop chassis, 461, Old Faithful cam, KRE heads 305 CFM,
Holley EFI, DIS ignition.
1969 GTO 467, Edelbrock 325 CFM, Terminator EFI
1969 Firebird Convertible
  #34  
Old 10-07-2019, 02:31 PM
HWYSTR455's Avatar
HWYSTR455 HWYSTR455 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Manassas, VA
Posts: 14,658
Default

Wouldn't it be just basically the same amount of fittings, and just more line in between?

.

__________________
.

1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger
Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:42 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017