[dataway]

In this diagram of the Endura jacking reinforcement bars ... what am I seeing between the bumper and the frame mount ... rectangular or oval ... washer? Some kind of clip to hold the bolt in while it's positioned on the vehicle?

Appears to be showing chrome bumper style frame mount ... does the Endura even use these reinforcement bars? Mine seems to have witness marks in the rubber that indicates they were used.

BTW. What's to stop a person from using the chrome bumper frame mounts instead of the boxed Endura mounts? Are the holes in the bumper different?

[6869GTO]

The bumper brackets should be the same for chrome bumpers and endura with fixed lights. Only the hideaway cars should have the boxed brackets.
Never seen the "L" bracket on a chrome nose, endura only.

[6869GTO]

Here's a couple pics of a clip that should be similar to what you are seeing. From a 70 rear bumper bracket. Just holds the bolt in place for assembly.

[dataway]

Excellent, thank you very much, that answers all my questions.

I had no idea the chrome bumper brackets could be use on a non-hideaway Endura. Any idea why? Assuming the chrome bumper type bracket would interfere with the hideaway mechanism?

[gtobird]

Dataway,

I've been gathering parts to convert my non-hideaway car to hideaway, so I've been studying these same issues for a while. Here is what I believe to be correct

1.) With respect to the "L" brackets, those are only used on endura cars and their purpose is to reinforce the bumper at the jack slot, so damage would be less (or not occur at all) if the original bumper jack is used. I saw a video on youtube of a guy explaining this while assembling his 68. He stated that they can be left off if never jacking the car there. That makes sense to me as the chrome bumpers were much like any other car with all metal bumpers and they didn't need the support (in theory).

2.) With respect to the boxed in bumper brackets used on hideaway cars........... The holes in the bumper brackets for the pivot rods that open the headlight doors are located in a different position than non-hideaway bumper brackets. That said, I have seen non-hideaway bumper brackets with enlarged holes in them to accomodate the rods for hideaway headlight cars. What I'm unclear of is whether or not enlarging the hole is really the only thing that is needed to make them work with a hideaway setup. The boxed in hideaway bumper brackets look to me like they were made that way to move the top half of the bracket further toward the center of the car by maybe a half inch to an inch, with the purpose being to clear the backing plates and other hardware for the hideaway doors. I've been pinging people on this topic, but haven't yet received confirmation if all of this bumper bracket theory is correct.

Old Joe

[dataway]

I think you are correct. Was assembling mine last night and for sure one function of the box section is to make up for lost strength due to the big hole to get the rods through .. and they have to be big enough holes to get the bent ends of the rod through.

If you need any pictures I've got my whole bumper and hideaways setup clamped to saw horses for assembly.

[gtobird]

Originally Posted by dataway

I think you are correct. Was assembling mine last night and for sure one function of the box section is to make up for lost strength due to the big hole to get the rods through .. and they have to be big enough holes to get the bent ends of the rod through.

If you need any pictures I've got my whole bumper and hideaways setup clamped to saw horses for assembly.

I have several pictures of complete hideaway setups, but what I really would like to get is confirmation of how much farther inboard the top half of the hideaway bumper brackets are than non-hideaway brackets. From pictures I've seen, the boxed hideaway brackets look to clear the backing plates and doors by about 1/2". It's possible there isn't a large difference in clearance (compared to non-hideaway brackets) and then just enlarging the holes on non-hideaway brackets would allow them to work. That would be almost free for me compared to buying a set of hideaway brackets.

[dataway]

The hideaway brackets are a pain, crudely made like an afterthought.

I can certainly measure my original hideaway brackets if you have a reference point we can figure out. I can measure any offset they have from the outer surface of the bracket where it bolts to the frame, to the center line of the bolt holes.

This afternoon I'll see what I can come up with for photos using straight edge or something.

Dang shame, not long ago I threw out a nice set of chrome bumper mounts.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Though i removed reinforcing brackets from my 68 LeMans Chrome nose to improve the looks through the grill. Looked way better without them. That was the early-mid 80s. AC car.

[gtobird]

Originally Posted by dataway

The hideaway brackets are a pain, crudely made like an afterthought.

I can certainly measure my original hideaway brackets if you have a reference point we can figure out. I can measure any offset they have from the outer surface of the bracket where it bolts to the frame, to the center line of the bolt holes.

This afternoon I'll see what I can come up with for photos using straight edge or something.

Dang shame, not long ago I threw out a nice set of chrome bumper mounts.

I was just rethinking this. Both hideaway and non- hideaway brackets have to mount to the bumper and frame in the same location. Based on that, what changes is the hideaway brackets are closer to a 0 degree angle on the top part if you were to look at them based on a vertical line from directly behind the bumper or in front. The non-hideaway brackets have sort of an odd bend angle in them to end up with the same top and bottom bolting points. I have a spare bumper and already have the hideaway doors / backing plates. Based on that, I could bolt the backing plates and doors to the bumper and see where the interference is with non-hideaway brackets (if I can borrow one from a local GTO guy). Based on that, I'll know if this is a relatively easy mod to non-hideaway brackets or a pain in the backside. Thanks for the offer to help.

Also, note the earlier comment about the "L' brackets having been on a chrome bumper car. Could very well be that they needed the reinforcement too for the bumper jack.

Old Joe

[dataway]

What I noted today while working on it, the offset from the outside of the hideaway frame brackets to the upper bumper bolts is huge ... like four inches, you can see it in the photo below ... I can't tell from the diagram above if they have that kind of offset ... they look almost flat in the diagram.

As for those freakin L brackets ... it's a moot point now .. off they came. Not sure how people are even using them, they totally interfere with the lower outside grill mounts, I mean like occupy the same space. They would make grill removal a real pain in the butt. I can't imagine I'll ever be jacking this car up by the bumper.

BTW, I have some rusty old Hideaway parts that need a home. Actuator mounts, I think the rod supports, the rods ... you need any of that stuff? Yours for the shipping.

[gtobird]

Thanks for your generous offer. I do need those parts. I will send you a pm later today.

A 4" offset doesn't surprise me. I believe the non-hideaway brackets do have a small offset too which was done by bending and then angled over, but as discussed earlier that causes the potential interference issues. If I can find a spare non-hideaway bracket locally, I'll snap a picture showing the interference and then post it.

BTW, very nice work. Beautiful paint!

Old Joe