[MOJO Catalina]

There are referencs to deep and shallow push rod holes and different MC set-ups earlier in this post. That's what I was referring to.. Sounds like you may have to bring your MC to the store and compare a few different ones to get a match. It may have been modified or the original MC and booster changed in the last 40 or so years to something that's non-'64.. You may need a '70s era MC or booster??

[mkoser]

Originally Posted by hellerods

Sorry I thought I was clear about my brake conversion attempt. My car is a factory stock drum/drum non-power, single M/C. I am trying to change to drum/drum , non-power, dual M/C. And I have read the total thread three times and still do not see the infomation that I need about a non-power brake car M/C conversion. I have a problem with the plunger/rod assy. between the two M/C's. My new M/C (from 1969 bonnie) Car Quest # BRK E66712 fits on the car's firewall and will bolt up no problem. The problem is the plunger from my original 64'M/C set up is uncompatable with the new MC. The new MC has a different rod retaining snap-ring set-up, the original plunger/rod assy is captured with a snap wire that allows the end of the plunger and the brass washer to be retained in the end of the MC. The new MC has a different style of plunger/ capture rod set-up, the new MC uses some other method of retaining the end of the rod assy. I need the parts from a 69' car that go between the MC and the brake pedal, or at least a picture? Thanks Lee

If it was my car, I'd increase my brake change over budget by about $115.00 and add a power brake booster to the setup. It'll provide easier and safer braking, and you won't have all these issues with push rods and the like... You'd just have to buy all the right parts together at once.

If anyone busts your balls about adding it, I'd tell them to go scratch.

Just my opinion.

MK

[1967Tempest]

I think that someone junkyarded the brake booster in my car. I did have to add a steel bar to the inside of the MC, because the rod was not long enough. If you were to buy a brake booster, you have the pick of the litter for booster size and rod length.

Heres one that looks like it will fit from a 1987 Bonneville. 90$$$

[T.Weber]

Or you can try these universal push rods from Speedway. All but the very last one listed are $9.99 each

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Univer...ngth,8924.html

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Univer...Long,9330.html

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Univer...Heim,9329.html

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/SSBC-U...Kit,50351.html

[hellerods]

Hey guys, I just wanted to keep this simple-- from a single to a dual m/c, my engine has a cam that makes a booster a pain. I have returned my new mc and will spend my weekend at the parts store getting this all figured out! I might just wait and get the new engine and trans ironed out and then change over to disc fronts.

[1967Tempest]

Did we ever settle the lines front and back?

I currently have the front brakes installed on the rear most reservoir. Should I swap them?

DRUM/DRUM

Thanks
Dave

[hellerods]

Hi Dave, sorry I won't be any help here, I went back to stock set-up just to get it on the road. I will run a single MC until I switch to front dics. I am still interested in the outcome of your mc brake line placement.

[1967Tempest]

yeah, the brake stop FAST!!!! I think this might be because of the rearmost reservoir on the front brakes.

[6T5 Cat]

Originally Posted by 1967Tempest

Did we ever settle the lines front and back?

I currently have the front brakes installed on the rear most reservoir. Should I swap them?

DRUM/DRUM

Thanks
Dave

Yes you need to swap the lines. The front brakes connect to the front port of the master cylinder. I' ll scan some pages from the 67 Pontiac service manual and post pictures if you would like to see proof.

[1967Tempest]

Ok, no sweat. My wife is getting to be an old pro at the brake/clutch pedal!!

Thanks guys,
Dave

[punisher7]

I have done quite a bit of research on the internet and at a car show over the weekend. I did not see a single dual master equipped car that had the front brakes controlled by the front resevoir. I just completed a dual master set up on my 63 with a 69 Bonneville dual and I have the brake set up with the front brakes being controlled by the resvoir closest to the firewall. I can't imagine that out of the 100+ cars that I looked at over teh weekend all of them had their brakes done incorrectly.

[1967Tempest]

Now you see my confusion.....

[6T5 Cat]

Originally Posted by 1967Tempest

Now you see my confusion.....

Dave,

Don't be confused or misled by bad information. I've attached 3 documents scanned from the 67 GM Pontiac Service Manual, brake section, that show the master cylinder and lines hooked up the proper way; front brakes connect to the front port of the master cylinder and the rear brakes lines connect to the rear port on the master cylinder. Read the document paragraph marked by the arrow, it clearly states how the lines are supposed to be connected. I also included a picture of the disc brake system which is connected the same way. The info is the same for both Tempest and Pontiac vehicles. This information is from the official Pontiac service manual, not some BS off the internet. If you have any questions send me a PM.

Bob

[MOJO Catalina]

Originally Posted by punisher7

I have done quite a bit of research on the internet and at a car show over the weekend. I did not see a single dual master equipped car that had the front brakes controlled by the front resevoir. I just completed a dual master set up on my 63 with a 69 Bonneville dual and I have the brake set up with the front brakes being controlled by the resvoir closest to the firewall. I can't imagine that out of the 100+ cars that I looked at over teh weekend all of them had their brakes done incorrectly.

I think the confusion may be with what GM and some others considers the "front" of the unit. Nowhere on the images above are the ports marked "F" and "R" are they? I consider the front to be where the piston enters and the rear to be the other end.. say the output end.. So the port closest to the piston entrance is the front port and the one furthest away (towards the car's grille) is the rear port... I just looked at an original 1962 Cadillac this past weekend, which was the first GM car to have a dual master cylinder. It had the port closest to the booster operating the front brakes and the one furthest away operating the rear brakes... That's how I installed the '69 BV dual drum master in my '63 BV convertible. It works great and I'm sticking with it..

[MOJO Catalina]

Originally Posted by punisher7

I have done quite a bit of research on the internet and at a car show over the weekend. ... I can't imagine that out of the 100+ cars that I looked at over the weekend all of them had their brakes done incorrectly.

Compelling peer pressure right here...

[joeg]

Ok Guys,

I've been watching this debate for quite some time, so its time for me to throw in my 2 cents.
By the way, I didn't make this sh$t up, this is right out of Pontiac Performance docs.

Joeg

[1967Tempest]

Well I will swap them. Can't be any worse than what I have now. Pedal is VERY VERY touchy now.. I will update..

Dave

[6T5 Cat]

Originally Posted by 1967Tempest

Well I will swap them. Can't be any worse than what I have now. Pedal is VERY VERY touchy now.. I will update..

Dave

They may be touchy because, with the lines being hooked up as they are, the higher pressure front mc piston is actuating the smaller rear wheel cylinders and causing a tendency to lockup. How old are your brake lines, they may be rusting inside, so check the brake fluid for rust setiment and tiny rust particles. Also check for the obvious grease or oil contminants on the shoes/pads and drums/rotors.

[hellerods]

Thanks Joe G.-- That settles that!! or, at least for me.

[1967Tempest]

Originally Posted by 6T5 Cat

They may be touchy because, with the lines being hooked up as they are, the higher pressure front mc piston is actuating the smaller rear wheel cylinders and causing a tendency to lockup. How old are your brake lines, they may be rusting inside, so check the brake fluid for rust setiment and tiny rust particles. Also check for the obvious grease or oil contminants on the shoes/pads and drums/rotors.

All of the lines are brand new. I am putting new wheels one him soon. I will take off the drum and inspect. Didnt see anything out of the ordinary.
Dave