AutoWeek Mustang vs GTO

[pluto]

Intriged...Pont3! But not passionate? Bill

[Jeff R]

Jeez you guys! I poke my head into this forum from time to time to research and, once in a while, add my two cents as a prospective, soon-to-be buyer. Several of you (you know who you are, it's always the same folks) have turned this particular forum it into a waste of time and bandwidth. Every thread that looks like it might be worth reading turns into the same guys bickering about each other and calling names. It's no longer about discussing the car, it's about bashing each other and nit-picking every word that's typed. Get off it and stick to the topics at hand. Do yourselves and the rest of us a huge favor and browse some of the other PY forums to get an idea of appropriate behaviour and content. The PY forums are all about bringing Pontiac enthusiasts together to share knowledge and celebrate some of the greatest cars ever made. Let's get back on track here.

[rabon008]

Ditto Jeff R. I'm posting a new thread. Check it out shortly.

[red70goat]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ozzy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ozzy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ozzy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rabon:
[QUOTE]
&gt;&gt;&gt; ...Have only seen 1 GTO here vs. 4 Mustangs. That's probably a reflection of both the cars and dealers. There was 0 promotion when the 04 GTOs arrived here. The Ford dealerships in SLC actively promoted the Mustang through radio spots, "open houses", giveaways, etc. The geniuses at Beavis and LutzHead Inc. have their heads up their asses if they think they can sell the GTO on name alone or making it elusive via a "scheduled" test drive. It's a Pontiac for crying out loud, not a Ferrari.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The GTO still sold more than the crapy cobra in 04 ... don't forget that "Mr I don't really have a red70 goat" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

&gt;&gt;&gt; Hey butthead: Read my post again dipstick. I wasn't talking about overall sales but rather the lack of sales in a particualr geographical region...and that it was primarily a reflection of the lack of dealer involvement. The Pontiac dealers here did nothing to promote the GTO while the Ford dealers did a good job of promoting the new Mustang and actively encouraged people to try a test drive. No wonder you see more Mustangs here then GTOs. Should I explain that again? Oh and by the way: What volume percentage of those GTO sales were in congruence with the original MSRP? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"...I was merely pointing out to you that overall the 04 GTO had outsold the 04 Cobra..."

&gt;&gt;&gt; Again, at what MSRP?

"So much for the good promotion job that Ford did "

&gt;&gt;&gt; Again: A local observation , not a statement on overall national sales or nationwide dealership involvement in promoting the GM Monaro. You do know the difference don't you? Apparantly not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"At what MSRP"
Do you know what MSRP means? Go look it up and then you will realize just how stupid your question is. Or maybe you won't </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey IQ: Uhhh, Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price.duh. What was the original MSRP vs. the ending MSRP in relation to units sold? You know darn well what I mean. GM practically had to give these cars away before anybody started buying them. Just admit it. You know I'm right.

[Bob Hall]

Jeff R.,

Looks like someone missed the clue bus up above me ^.

[Goat luver]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ozzy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ozzy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ozzy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rabon:
[QUOTE]
&gt;&gt;&gt; ...Have only seen 1 GTO here vs. 4 Mustangs. That's probably a reflection of both the cars and dealers. There was 0 promotion when the 04 GTOs arrived here. The Ford dealerships in SLC actively promoted the Mustang through radio spots, "open houses", giveaways, etc. The geniuses at Beavis and LutzHead Inc. have their heads up their asses if they think they can sell the GTO on name alone or making it elusive via a "scheduled" test drive. It's a Pontiac for crying out loud, not a Ferrari.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The GTO still sold more than the crapy cobra in 04 ... don't forget that "Mr I don't really have a red70 goat" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

&gt;&gt;&gt; Hey butthead: Read my post again dipstick. I wasn't talking about overall sales but rather the lack of sales in a particualr geographical region...and that it was primarily a reflection of the lack of dealer involvement. The Pontiac dealers here did nothing to promote the GTO while the Ford dealers did a good job of promoting the new Mustang and actively encouraged people to try a test drive. No wonder you see more Mustangs here then GTOs. Should I explain that again? Oh and by the way: What volume percentage of those GTO sales were in congruence with the original MSRP? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"...I was merely pointing out to you that overall the 04 GTO had outsold the 04 Cobra..."

&gt;&gt;&gt; Again, at what MSRP?

"So much for the good promotion job that Ford did "

&gt;&gt;&gt; Again: A local observation , not a statement on overall national sales or nationwide dealership involvement in promoting the GM Monaro. You do know the difference don't you? Apparantly not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"At what MSRP"
Do you know what MSRP means? Go look it up and then you will realize just how stupid your question is. Or maybe you won't </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey IQ: Uhhh, Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price.duh. What was the original MSRP vs. the ending MSRP in relation to units sold? You know darn well what I mean. GM practically had to give these cars away before anybody started buying them. Just admit it. You know I'm right. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I knew you were too dumb to realize your mistake!
Now I will take heed from Jeff R's post and in future I will not lower myself to your level.
Thanks Jeff, you are correct.

[skepecs]

I hope the magazine articles encourage more Mustang sales. More fun fore me at the lights!

[red70goat]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ozzy:

"...I knew you were too dumb to realize your mistake!
QUOTE]

&gt;&gt;&gt; Sounds like somebody is trying to weasle out of my question. One more time: How much did GM have to discount these before they finally sold? And what % of volume sold at what price? And is that really considered a victory? I think you're just chapped because you probably paid full price for a car that is going to have all the appeal and resale value of a used Aztec in a few years. Now who's the dumb one? BTW: If you're so smart why don't you tell me what MSRP means...GM Insider says Manu. Sugg. Ret. Price. But what do they know.

[Mr_GTO]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:

&gt;&gt;&gt; Sounds like somebody is trying to weasle out of my question. One more time: How much did GM have to discount these before they finally sold? And what % of volume sold at what price? And is that really considered a victory? I think you're just chapped because you probably paid full price for a car that is going to have all the appeal and resale value of a used Aztec in a few years. Now who's the dumb one? BTW: If you're so smart why don't you tell me what MSRP means...GM Insider says Manu. Sugg. Ret. Price. But what do they know. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most car companies discount cars before they start selling. Pontiac dealers were treating GTO's like gold. That is why they didn't sell. And yes, it is a SUGGESTED price. Many didn't want to pay MSRP for it let alone any markups that dealers were adding to the car.

If there is a good rebate, it isn't unexpected to have the cars move, the same can be had for Corvettes. My buddy waited to buy a 2004 Vert until they were offering $10K off MSRP. It's called being a SMART CONSUMER.

Where are the pics of "your" cars you fraud?

[red70goat]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by red70goat:

&gt;&gt;&gt; Sounds like somebody is trying to weasle out of my question. One more time: How much did GM have to discount these before they finally sold? And what % of volume sold at what price? And is that really considered a victory? I think you're just chapped because you probably paid full price for a car that is going to have all the appeal and resale value of a used Aztec in a few years. Now who's the dumb one? BTW: If you're so smart why don't you tell me what MSRP means...GM Insider says Manu. Sugg. Ret. Price. But what do they know. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Many didn't want to pay MSRP for it let alone any markups that dealers....It's called being a SMART CONSUMER.

&gt;&gt;&gt; Those who purchased a 2004 GM Monaro in the latter part of the year were infinately smarter than the manufacturer.

Where are the pics of "your" cars you fraud? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[HUMBLER]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by steve kepecs:
I hope the magazine articles encourage more Mustang sales. More fun fore me at the lights! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, that's a good approach...

[Brad34]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Randy W:
Car and Driver gave the win to Mustang by a score of 211 to 210 and that was based on what they called "got to have it factor'(25 to 18) or some such crap! The GTO won every catagory but that one, including the fun to drive section!!! Boy, that was a real butt whipping, huh?! If you don't Got to have it, the GTO wins easily!!

PS; For what it's worth, there were three Mustang ads in that mag, not the zero as was claimed here by David Jones, nice try though! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Car and Driver got flamed by heap of readers in their next issue because of this review. One guy hit the nail on the head when he said "Excuse me, but why do I "gotta have" a car that loses in every category except one to it's competitor"

[Jeff R]

Holy resurrected thread Batman!

[455HOGT37]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jeff R.:
Holy resurrected thread Batman! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No kiddiong!

But since it was brought up, what has been the response by the publication (if any) to this BS "comparison"? I know there were a bunch of letters from people the following month, but did the magazine make any excuses for the article?