[kyle_blake]

Hi,

This is a spin off message from the my "start - o -death" post....

Can some quickly confirm the routing of the three small wires for me?

As much detail as possible would be great.

I've got quite a few diagrams printed up from the internet today.

Most have THE 2 Terminal solenoid diagram.

I know one of the wires goes to the ignition coil for 12V during crank.

The other two I assume go inside the car via the bulkhead or the other location in the firewall.

I'd have to take apart a ton of electrical tape to get to the other end of those two wires for testing.

Does someone know off the top of their head?

Ignition Switch on top of steering column?

69gto

[george kujanski]

The only GM solenoid terminals I know of are:

1. the large bolt that the battery cable and the power feed to the car connect to.

2. The "S" terminal which gets the purple wire that goes to the ignition switch. This wire engages the starter.

3. The "R" (or "I" terminal, don't remember which) on some cars goes to the coil (+) terminal to provide ignition power for starting. Firebirds used this but "A" bodies like the GTO did not. When used, it's usually a yellow wire.

Those are the 3 terminals I know of.

George

[kyle_blake]

Ok,

Sounds like I have an odd ball pontiac modification I guess.

I'll keep asking around.

I guess they are made for some gm, summit has a replacement wiring kit for:

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

Does this information and chart not apply to the gto in the link below:

http://www.chevelles.com/techref/ftecref4.html

[Squidward]

Sometimes a 10-gauge wire is also connected to the large bolt with the battery cable. It would then tie in with the alternator output and fusible links that carry the power to the rest of the system via the bulkhead connector and fuseblock. This would most likely be the case if you do not have a separate wire going to the + battery terminal along with the big cable.

For example, my firebird has 4 wires to the starter solenoid: + battery cable and 10 gauge red wire on the big solenoid "+" terminal, purple wire on "S", and yellow wire on "R".

[jfmjr1]

diagram of wiring

[george kujanski]

If you look at the Summit connector closely, there is a larger red wire with a large ring connector on it. This wire would also go on the large bolt, and it would/could be used for the power feed to the rest of the car and the alternator connection.

I personally would not use it for that since in my opinion, form the looks of it, the wire size is too small. Use a OEM-sized wire for the main power feed; should be about 8 gauge.

You keep saying a four terminal solenoid; are there actually 4 terminals on the solenoid or are you counting the total wires, i.e. the Bat cable and the three wires in the connector?

EDIT: sorry, I should have said 3 terminal instead of 4 terminal.

George

[kyle_blake]

Well I'm 2/3 .

That diagram is the one I was using to.

My (guess) on the last wire would end up connecting to...:

?neutral saftety switch or
?ALTERNATOR main wire??
?ignition switch another contact in it?

There is no extra wires attached to battery positive post.

I just want to measure resistance on trach solenoid wire to see if it's 2-3 ohm's and if possible replace the wires with some new ones.

Almost there!

[george kujanski]

Kyle: hopefully you now know where the wire (original purple) from the "S" solenoid terminal goes and the wire from the "R" (or "I") terminal (original yellow) goes.

The remaining issue is to connect a larger cable, like a 8 ga. red one, from the large bolt on the solenoid (along with the battery cable), to the alternator output and the power feed into the bulkhead (firewall) connector.

Instead of the power feed/alternator output cable connecting to the solenoid large bolt, you can also run it directly to the battery positive terminal.

Keep in mind the original harness had a fusible link in the power feed cable where you may not.

The best thing for you to do is to get a engine harness from M&H Electrical Fabricators. It will duplicate the OEM harness.

George

[kyle_blake]

Yup, I'm very happy I know the routing of the two wires of the solenoid.

I was only guessing on what the third wire could be ( alternator related ).

What a relieve it would be to find out that it goes to my alternator (huge single connection).

Maybe my starter has the extra post for hooking this up instead of people running that ALT wire to the huge "+" terminal that ALREADY has the BATTERY CABLE ON IT.

This almost makes sense but could the battery be getting charged this way?

When I'm comfortable with whats going on with that wire I'll refer to your post above.

If I could humbly suggest this is what I understand you are saying:

1) illiminate the third wire assuming its alt going to 3 rd terminal on start
2) run a new wire from single post connection on alternator along intake to firewall, along firewall behind brake booster, along wheel well, to battery "+" post.

Thanks again George for your help.

[george kujanski]

You could do that, but your solution #2 still does not provide a power feed to your firewall (bulkhead) connector. You need to provide the power feed to the bulkhead connector also, if it's not there already. That could also come directly from the battery, but keep in mind, in the OEM harness, that was all spliced together along with a fusible link for protection of the alt and power feed circuit.

Another thing you can do is peel out the alt-and-power feed cable out of the harness, and repair or replace it as necessary to maintain the fusible link portion.

OR

You should consider a replacement engine harness if yours is not repairable.

George

[kyle_blake]

Well what I'm shooting for is to just go back to stock,
whatever stock is for my car.

On a side note:

I realize that pontiac and most manufactures design a car with the idea that the wiring can support all the options that model can be ordered with.

So if my GTO never came with a tach I should be able to install a tach later without splicing or doing a "back yard mechanic job".

[kyle_blake]

So get this ..

I took off the engine ground strap to clean contacts and forgot to re-install.

Went to start the car and it started, go figure.

Backed car up, worked on ignition, fuse box etc.

Later on when I went to start it the old problem came back.

I'm like GREAT!!!

So I put the OLD ground strap ON and it started.

The ground strap goes from front of head cast to pitman arm bolt.

I'm going to replace with a new strap anywaz.

Thought I'd let you know.

I also removed all instances of the old HEI WIRING - DONE.

Also removed the fuse box to look behind it!!

Interesting!!!

Also got the power antenna installed back into the car. It has been overhauled!

I still have the three wire starter solenoid and I'd have to take apart alot of "electrical tape" to find out exactly where 2 of the three wires end up.

I have a couple new questions coming up soon.

[kyle_blake]

Well it's not the ground strap that was the problem

It's gotta be the purple wire going to the solenoid.

I'm gonna have to pull the starter and re-do the solenoid wires going up.

[kyle_blake]

Your right, it has 2 small posts on solenoid.
And the big ass one.

1- ignition switch (key-on) ( purple ) - I SUSPECT THIS IS THE PROBLEM WIRE
2 - 12 volt cranking ( pink )


3 - BATTERY WIRE ( BIG ASS RED)
4 - Another wire ATTACHED TO POST ON BATTERY WIRE at solenoid
-> purpose - > goes to fuseable LINK - (bulkhead power) - ie interior lights and cig lighter for example.

I have this correct , I think I have a handle on it.

Time to replace the wires and re-butt connect them.

If this doesn't work then it's something else going down the line past the wires I'm replacing.

Trust me if this doesn't work, I will physically trace those wires through back to bulkhead/ign switch.

I'll be thrilled if I fix this!

P.S. -> George you said that the 69 GTO DID not use the 12 volt cranking wire? Would it be acceptable to remove this wire then?


Thanks again!!!

[george kujanski]

Depends. If someone rewired your car such that your coil is wired to the "R" terminal on the starter solenoid, obviously you need to keep it. If the start wire to the coil is still wired thru the bulkhead connector to the ignition switch IGN2 terminal, then you can remove the one from the starter.

George

[kyle_blake]

Interesting!

I'm going to try it without the "R" terminal.

The only wire on the "+" side of the coil will be the resistor wire ( which I tested last week[granted the "R" wire was there too] but it had the 9 Volts running.

That leads me to believe that the "I" wire add - on is a not bad idea since firebird came with it but it doesn't need to be there?

Proably cool to have it but?

Wait till you see the pics, before and after.

Please make any recommendations.
Agaiin thank you Guys