| FAQ |
| Members List |
| Social Groups |
| Calendar |
| Search |
| Today's Posts |
|
|
|
#1
10-09-2019, 01:51 PM
|
||||
|
||||
70 Judge RA IV: LOOKING FOR INFO ON MY "NEW" CAR
Hello everyone,
Posted this on another forum but was told THIS is the place to be. Finally got the car I've been looking for and I am hoping this is a car that is known to some of you and perhaps there is some info out there (stories, pictures, etc). I have some optimism because this car is unique to the point there is no way it hasn't been recognized. Here is what it is: 1970 Pontiac GTO Judge RAM AIR IV -4-Speed -Matching numbers all through out -Polar White -Dark Saddle (Brown) Interior Code 253 or 53 -"Zone Car" has 2 sales invoices given by PHS -25 options on the car -Won concourse gold at the 2001 GTO Nationals Any info or stories anyone might have would be great. I am looking for some specific info though: -Any info on the 253 or 53 code interior? It is "Dark Saddle", sometimes referred to as "Brown". It is not like saddle, no tan about it. I have looked at literally thousands of cars over the years and never seen this before. Any info on this would be appreciated. -The 2 invoices show it was originally invoiced to FRANK HAYES PONTIAC in Williamsport, PA Dealer Code 03-267 on 12/29/69 then on 2/24/70 it was transferred to the PONTIAC MOTOR DIVISION ZONE 3 in Jenkintown, PA, Dealer code 03-991. Looking for any info on this, why it might have been transferred. Frank Hayes it seems went out a while back. Anyone know about them? Any other info would be great. Really appreciate any help, just trying to build the story and all. I will probably post another thread on these specific topics but just wanted to start with this. |
|
#2
10-09-2019, 02:26 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Congrats on your Judge!
Interesting on the dates of the PHS's Seems most were at the zone office 1st then went to the dealer. Can you post the PHS's? Also wouldn't have found the buildsheet for it? 
__________________
John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
|
#3
10-09-2019, 08:38 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
My old car! Sold it to a old man down in Tennessee I think about 15yrs ago. I believe it was a zone car first. Not sure about 25 options but it was uniquely optioned. Heated rear glass,reclining pass seat,formula wheel. Didnt have right carb or distributor when I had it but was definitely original engine and trans and rear. Brown Interior is fairly rare on a 70 in my book.
Last edited by Ram4king; 10-09-2019 at 08:44 PM. |
|
#4
10-09-2019, 09:09 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Wasn't a WT7 was it?
__________________
John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
|
#5
10-09-2019, 10:11 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
No it was not.
|
|
#6
10-10-2019, 06:53 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Welcome aboard to the best forum for information!
__________________
Mike/Illinois |
|
#7
10-10-2019, 09:22 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
|
|
#8
10-15-2019, 08:19 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
BVZ, thank you very much. I appreciate the info, truly.
 Quite an interesting history with the car, very confusing but interesting. I agree, the number and oddity of the options would probably lead one to believe it was customer ordered, or maybe Pontiac ordered? Someone had mentioned it could have been ordered that way to show other dealerships what certain options looked like, a sales example? It going to Hayes first doesn't make a whole lot of sense though. Just more speculation I suppose. I just think it is worth considering that RA IV on a Judge was a somewhat strange thing to do in 70 to begin with, not your everyday buyer would do something like that. Adding on to it a lot of options including some strange ones says something in and of itself. Hey Don, are you saying the plate is the original one in that photo? The last owners are good guys, we've been talking about the car and they say similar things about the past ownership of the it, I think you may have been in contact with them in the past. Do you know the name of the original owner? |
|
#9
10-10-2019, 07:48 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Take a look at the invoices, see if that looks familiar. That would blow my mind if you were one of the previous owners! If it was your car then you may have been the one who took it to the 2001 GTOAA event and got concourse gold?
|
|
#10
10-10-2019, 07:42 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Hey guys, thanks a ton, glad we got recommended over here. I attached pictures of the invoices, I have all the docs for it too, both build sheets, PHS window sticker, etc.
|
|
#11
10-10-2019, 08:32 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Cool car and welcome aboard PY
|
|
#12
10-10-2019, 09:30 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Here ya go!
 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
|
#13
10-10-2019, 09:31 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
|
#14
10-10-2019, 09:58 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Our 70 OO Judge also had the Heated Rear Window. Sandlewood Interior.
Is your Judge made at the Arlington TX plant? What is the Firewall color? |
|
#15
10-10-2019, 11:07 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Those are unbelievable, thank you so much. Car still has the black spoiler on it even after restoration.
-Car was made at the Pontiac plant |
|
#16
10-10-2019, 02:21 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Thanks for the PHS's
I'll let BVZ decipher these I think. I would probably get it wrong. To me it does look like it went to zone office last? Possibly on a tour? Very cool Judge for sure.
__________________
John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
|
#17
10-10-2019, 03:52 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Thats right, dates show it went to dealer first, then to zone office.
|
|
#18
10-10-2019, 06:53 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Are you sure there wasn't another PHS after the 2/24/70? Sounds like it was going to another dealership and was sent to a storage (holding) lot.
__________________
So long, farewell. |
|
#19
10-11-2019, 08:03 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
I have no knowledge of a third, I've attached to this a picture of the letter PHS sent with the documents and they wrote the owner at the time "Jack" about how there were 2 invoices.
It is interesting you use the term "storage". I have also attached one of the two build sheets (the other one is not in as good of condition). At the bottom they have a note talking about installing the body in storage? I haven't ever seen that before however I don't have much experience with Pontiac build sheets. Also, the whole WT7 thing. I have read the great 6 page thread that attempted to delve into decoding the WT7 but didn't find many answers. The pictures of the car when Don was selling it around 1999 show it had the black spoiler, and when Jack bought it and had it restored he spent a lot of time making sure the car was as accurate as he could. I find it interesting he left the spoiler black. I don't see anywhere that it should be but again, I'm not an expert in document decoding. Does anyone see anything on the build sheet that eludes to this? I know it has been mentioned that Pontiac built cars don't follow the same patterns other plants used in regards to identifying WT7. |
|
#20
10-11-2019, 08:27 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
70 Judge RA IV: LOOKING FOR INFO ON MY "NEW" CAR
It was extremely common for people to paint their 70 and 71 Judge spoilers black back in the day. Especially on white cars.
Many would even change the stripe colors to yellow, red, and black like the popular 1970 white WT7 Judge ad. I owned two white Judges just like that. A 70 RAIV and a 71. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Last edited by Uncle Judge; 10-11-2019 at 08:37 AM. |
| Reply |
|
|
The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.
Hybrid Mode
