[allenga]

Guys, I installed a Lares 1105 box and new rag joint. The pitman is slotted and goes on one way. My rag joint is centered on steering shaft.

After install my steering wheel is off center a few inches. The car drives straight, no problems

Could my rag joint be off a spline or two on the input shaft?

[694.1]

You may be the first person in the Universe that has experienced this.
Or NOT.
Keep swinging!


PS: Nice Ride.

[JLMounce]

Mine came out that way as well with the lates box I installed. What you’ll need to do is reset your toe with the wheel straight.

This is a good time to check and realign the whole front end if needed.

[pont3]

Was the steering box centered when you installed it? If not, the pitman arm could be installed in the wrong position. Are your turns left to right equal? Highly doubt the rag joint is off since the input shaft on the box has an indention that won't allow the bolt to be inserted if the rag joint is not correctly installed.

Not trying to disparage others' advice, but yes, the steering wheel can still be centered with an alignment, (ask me how I know), but your turning radius will be greater on one side than the other, and your steering will NOT be satisfactory because the box itself will be off centered.

What you need to do is to center your steering wheel, then take a look at the pitman arm position, (it should be straight ahead), and if not, you may need to reposition the pitman arm. With your steering wheel straight center, the jam bolt should be in the same position as your photo shows.

Hope this helps.

[allenga]

Thank you for the thoughtful response. I thought the pitman arm was slotted to match the output shaft on the steering box.

[Geoff]

Pretty sure the s/box has 4 slots, so getting the pitman arm position wrong will rotate the arm 90*. This would not be the problem.

If the steering wheel is out by half a turn, most likely the flange from the steering column has been installed 180* out on the rag joint.

If the steering wheel is just off centre a small amount, then the steering wheel spline to shaft position is probably out & the wheel should be re-installed on the correct spline.

The correct method for steering wheel & pitman arm centering is this:
pitmam arm should be pointing straight ahead in the centre of travel [ equal movement to L & R ]. Then, steering wheel is installed in centered position. If wheels are not centered [ pointing to L or R ], adjust tie rods so that wheels are pointing straight ahead.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by Geoff

Pretty sure the s/box has 4 slots, so getting the pitman arm position wrong will rotate the arm 90*. This would not be the problem.

If the steering wheel is out by half a turn, most likely the flange from the steering column has been installed 180* out on the rag joint.

If the steering wheel is just off centre a small amount, then the steering wheel spline to shaft position is probably out & the wheel should be re-installed on the correct spline.

The correct method for steering wheel & pitman arm centering is this:
pitmam arm should be pointing straight ahead in the centre of travel [ equal movement to L & R ]. Then, steering wheel is installed in centered position. If wheels are not centered [ pointing to L or R ], adjust tie rods so that wheels are pointing straight ahead.

Correct, the Pitman arm can only be positioned in 90 degree increments. So if the pitman arm was installed incorrectly, the wheel would be way out.

I found on mine that the wheel was installed correctly and everything was aligned. All I needed to do was actually look at the wheels to see I had a toe issue. Which also explained my rapid front tire wear.

These cars are 50 years old and if you're replacing the steering box, there's likely a reason for it. If there's a ton of slop in the box and you go to have the car aligned, you may be aligning it on one or the other side of the tolerance stack. Put a new tighter box in there without redoing the alignment and all bets are off at that point.

[70gtojosh]

Is there a chance that on of the shafts in the steering box is twisted on your old steering box? (You install new box then have misalignment issue) Or the new box has a twisted shaft? Any chance the pitman arm is bent? Couple things a guy could maybe check out. Good luck.

[allenga]

So I pulled the pitman arm off the box, and I pulled the wheels with my hands all the way left and all the way right. The wheels turn further right than left by about an inch of travel. I centered the box but the pitman arm back and with everything connected, same turning radius. I will button this thing up and take in for an alignment.

[allenga]

I just took the car on a long drive. The car tracks straight down the road as normal. Wheel is just off. I will get it aligned.

Another problem. The power steering pulsates and low speeds, like turning around in a parking lot. I have bled the system. There are no bubbles in fluid and no leaks. This is irritating. Did not have this with the old box and existing PS pump which is several months old. Is this the new Lares box I just installed.

[pont3]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

Correct, the Pitman arm can only be positioned in 90 degree increments. So if the pitman arm was installed incorrectly, the wheel would be way out.

I found on mine that the wheel was installed correctly and everything was aligned. All I needed to do was actually look at the wheels to see I had a toe issue. Which also explained my rapid front tire wear.

These cars are 50 years old and if you're replacing the steering box, there's likely a reason for it. If there's a ton of slop in the box and you go to have the car aligned, you may be aligning it on one or the other side of the tolerance stack. Put a new tighter box in there without redoing the alignment and all bets are off at that point.

This is true and makes sense. I was assuming he did not have this off-center issue until he replaced the steering box.

[OG68]

Originally Posted by allenga

Another problem. The power steering pulsates and low speeds, like turning around in a parking lot. I have bled the system. There are no bubbles in fluid and no leaks. This is irritating. Did not have this with the old box and existing PS pump which is several months old. Is this the new Lares box I just installed.

Could be, but check the pressure valve inside the pump and thoroughly flush the system if you haven't done so already. Doesn't take much to have them stick after component replacement if the fluid wasn't flushed. I had a dog hair in mine jamming up the valve. Worked fine at speed but at low speed it was acting like yours.

Bottom part of the radiator was packed with dog hair too. The dog is no longer allowed to sleep under the engine. lol

[Geoff]

Pulsation/hard steering at low speeds is most likely a pressure problem.
To increase pressure, you need to remove shims from the flow control valve, which resides behind the high pressure hose fitting in the pump. One shim changes pressure by about 120-150 psi, so remove one shim & try.

[allenga]

Originally Posted by Geoff

Pulsation/hard steering at low speeds is most likely a pressure problem.
To increase pressure, you need to remove shims from the flow control valve, which resides behind the high pressure hose fitting in the pump. One shim changes pressure by about 120-150 psi, so remove one shim & try.

Thank you. I am learning more about PS pumps that I originally wanted to know.

When I installed my Lares 1105 in my 77 Trans Am, I immediately noticed the steering wheel was harder to turn. Also, I have pulsation in the steering wheel at low speeds.

In Jan 2019, I installed a Lares Power Steering Pump through Ames part FS220.

Now it seems I have a low pressure issue. I am reading some boxes require more effort and if you change the box version, you have to mess with the power steering pressure valve.

[JLMounce]

Was the PS system bled with the engine at idle?

This can cause the pressure relieve valve to be pushed out of place and possibly catch. This can create a low pressure situation. Had this happen on mine after the shop bled the system with the engine at idle. Didn’t have any pulsating but the wheel acted as though there was no assist.

What you would need to do is remove the pressure hose from the power steering pump. Using a small screw driver you want to lightly press and manipulate the pressure relief valve until it slides back into place and places some spring pressure on you. Reinstall the pressure hose and reveled the system. Technically speaking you should be able to do that by simply turning the wheel lock to lock without the engine on. If you need some help, kill the ignition and bleed the system with the engine at cranking speed only.

[allenga]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

Was the PS system bled with the engine at idle?

This can cause the pressure relieve valve to be pushed out of place and possibly catch. This can create a low pressure situation. Had this happen on mine after the shop bled the system with the engine at idle. Didn’t have any pulsating but the wheel acted as though there was no assist.

What you would need to do is remove the pressure hose from the power steering pump. Using a small screw driver you want to lightly press and manipulate the pressure relief valve until it slides back into place and places some spring pressure on you. Reinstall the pressure hose and reveled the system. Technically speaking you should be able to do that by simply turning the wheel lock to lock without the engine on. If you need some help, kill the ignition and bleed the system with the engine at cranking speed only.

Thanks Jason. I called Lares and they indicated I would need to take the pressure relief valve out of the pump, reassemble and make sure I follow their bleeding instructions. When I put this all together, I filled the pump and with wheels off the ground turned the steering wheel lock to lock like 20 times. I guess that was wrong? I then started the car at idle and did another lock to lock 20 times.


Fill power steering pump with new fluid recommended for your vehicle. While having someone watch the fluid level and adding fluid to the pump (Keep fluid above top of pump casting) crank the engine over using the ignition switch. (To prevent excessive starter wear; crank engine over for less than 20 second intervals.) While you are cranking the engine over, turn the steering wheel lock to lock slowly at least 4 times to bleed the system. If you see any bubbles and/or foam enter the pump; stop and let the system rest until all of the bubbles and/or foam has dissipated. Repeat steps 8-10 until bubbles and/or foam no longer enter the pump.

[allenga]

Hey Guys, so I have the pressure valve cleaned and re-seated and the pump is back in the car. I have the wheels off the ground and was starting to bleed air. I noticed my steering was binding a bit (I did not make any changes here). The idler arm bolt is hitting the frame.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by allenga

Hey Guys, so I have the pressure valve cleaned and re-seated and the pump is back in the car. I have the wheels off the ground and was starting to bleed air. I noticed my steering was binding a bit (I did not make any changes here). The idler arm bolt is hitting the frame.

Loosen the idler arm up, and pry down on it to see if you can gain enough to get clearance. If not you may need to open the lower mounting hole up slightly. You shouldn't need much at the mounting hole to gain some frame to center link clearance.

[Geoff]

Or wrong idler arm.

[allenga]

Ok, I just bought all the steering components. Is the best was to do this is take it all off the car in one piece, then assemble new pieces to match the adjustments of the old?

Then, take the car in for alignment.

Thanks!