[dreamta1972]

Would a '69 SJ have come with a 428 exclusively or was it possible that it may have a 400?

[Stuart]

The 370hp 428 was standard in an SJ, with a 390hp 428 as an option. You can look at a 1969 GP factory brochure here: http://oldcarbrochures.org/United%20...ure/index.html

['ol Pinion head]

Have ran across a 400-2bbl Economy Option drivetrain in a '70 Model SJ GP & it was the original engine, i cked the date codes & the partial VIN. Thought for sure that '70 being an SJ, would be a great one to pick up relatively cheap, but the engine & 10 Pontiac 8.2 bolt rear axed the idea. Have been told, a similar deal could have happened on a '69. Being the eternal skeptic, i would really like to see the factory '69 & 70 GrandPrix order forms.

Have owned quite a few '69 & '70 model SJ's as projects & partscars, as well as several '70 Model J's that were top engine option 455 cars. Rarest is a '69 Model J that is a loaded out 390 horse car. Have always wondered why the dealer didn't order it as an SJ, as it has all the SJ content plus about every other option.

[joegpho]

Among other 69 GP 428 HO stick-shift friends, we've documented about 20 cars out of 119 built. The split between Model J/Model SJ is about 50/50. There were 119 cars total; the 3 cars that had "no transmission option" would be 3-speed stick (Ford Toploader) - those were all Model Js. (My dad owned one - bought from original owner/neighbor in 78, sold in 84, scrapped in 85.) The 22 M-21 close ratio 4spd (special order) cars - there are about 3 known and all were Model Js. Among the 94 M-20 wide ratio 4spd cars, perhaps more than 50% are Model SJ, but I've seen quite a few Model Js - and I own one as well.

Sorry - I guess this turned into a big digression. I've learned to never say never, but generally, an SJ for 1969 should have the non-HO 428 as the standard engine.

[hawkins69]

Joegpho if you would like to document my 69 model j 428 HO m20 car let me know. Burgundy with red interior. You may already have it in your data

[joegpho]

Hawkins - one that color doesn't ring a bell. I'll send you a PM.

[trophy421]

[QUOTE='Have always wondered why the dealer didn't order it as an SJ, as it has all the SJ content plus about every other option.[/QUOTE]

I wonder if they ordered it as a J to avoid getting the automatic suspension leveling, which was standard on the SJ?

[hawkins69]

I sent you an email Joe. Would love to learn more about these cars. Absolutely love mine and plan to keep it a long time as it’s a bucket list car for me

[north]

I've often wondered about a 2 bbl SJ. The 69 Accessorizer makes no mention of a restriction on availability of the no charge L65 2 bbl regular fuel engine other than it was only available with the TH400 auto trans. It wouldn't show on the PHS since it was a n/c option. I've seen a few 69 Bonnevilles over the years that had the L65 and bonnies came with 428's as standard.

As for J's with all the SJ features I suspect there was some kind of issue as I've seen several cars like this, they all seem to be early production. I heard that they had a shortage of SJ emblems so they built and billed them as J's and the dealer could add the SJ emblems later. By the way it is interesting that the SJ was a discounted package. Calendar year 1968 built SJ's had an option price of $315.96 but the options that made the SJ package (428-370, white or red fiberglass tires, auto level, corner and underhood lamps, rally gauges and power disc brakes) cost $353.87 if ordered separately, $37.91 over the SJ package price. After Jan 1st when PDB became standard on the GP the SJ option dropped to 244.34 and the SJ options ordered separately totaled $272.78 or $28.44 extra (the change in savings was because the option price of the 428-370 was dropped by $9.47).

['ol Pinion head]

The very loaded '69 Model J 428HO auto car I prev mentioned was built in Jan of '69.
Same exterior & interior as Hawkin's 428HO 4spd Model J.

[1oldgoat]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

Have ran across a 400-2bbl Economy Option drivetrain in a '70 Model SJ GP & it was the original engine, i cked the date codes & the partial VIN. Thought for sure that '70 being an SJ, would be a great one to pick up relatively cheap, but the engine & 10 Pontiac 8.2 bolt rear axed the idea. Have been told, a similar deal could have happened on a '69. Being the eternal skeptic, i would really like to see the factory '69 & 70 GrandPrix order forms.

Have owned quite a few '69 & '70 model SJ's as projects & partscars, as well as several '70 Model J's that were top engine option 455 cars. Rarest is a '69 Model J that is a loaded out 390 horse car. Have always wondered why the dealer didn't order it as an SJ, as it has all the SJ content plus about every other option.

Roger, here are the 69 and 70 order forms. The 69 does not show 400-2bbl engine as restricted but 70 does.

['ol Pinion head]

Thanks Scott, have always wondered if '69 model GP's could be ordered that way as well.

[hawkins69]

I would love to see pictures of that 69 HO auto car ooh!!

[brucee70]

Originally Posted by joegpho

Among other 69 GP 428 HO stick-shift friends, we've documented about 20 cars out of 119 built. The split between Model J/Model SJ is about 50/50. There were 119 cars total; the 3 cars that had "no transmission option" would be 3-speed stick (Ford Toploader) - those were all Model Js. (My dad owned one - bought from original owner/neighbor in 78, sold in 84, scrapped in 85.) The 22 M-21 close ratio 4spd (special order) cars - there are about 3 known and all were Model Js. Among the 94 M-20 wide ratio 4spd cars, perhaps more than 50% are Model SJ, but I've seen quite a few Model Js - and I own one as well.

Sorry - I guess this turned into a big digression. I've learned to never say never, but generally, an SJ for 1969 should have the non-HO 428 as the standard engine.

I'm a number of month late to this thread ....joegpho.....do you have my 69 SJ 4spd car in your database? Thanks, Bruce 804-986-0916

[joegpho]

My database right now is - my memory! What color is your car, Bruce? Was it in PA at the POCI convention a few years ago? (I wasn't there, but saw pictures.)