#41  
Old 01-01-2007, 04:24 AM
77 Canamman's Avatar
77 Canamman 77 Canamman is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 4,022
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by bastard
Who guessed 5000 pounds for a Can Am? My car only weighs 3800. I can't imagine that a fiberglass spoiler and a shaker would bump the weight up that much. Those must be some really heavy stripes.
That would be the guy here who said he once owned a Can Am, and said they weren't worth anything..

I weighed my current Can Am and it is a hefty 3980, but is quite loaded. The weight listed on my registration is a svelte 3558.

My old stripper Can Am weighed 3850, and was a super consistent high 14 sec. car with minor tuning mods.

To hell with what the general hobbyist feels of these cars. I have owned/built quite a few muscle era cars, lastly a 383 4 speed '71 Road Runner, and they didn't have anything on the overall feel that these cars have. I am hooked on them. They are one of the best kept secrets in the collector car world. I kinda hope that everyone continues to throw their noses up at them, to keep the prices at a minimum..

However, Brian is correct for the most part. Many of the owners of these cars are hesistant to spend a large amount of money on the cars because when they go to sell them, the return on investment just isn't there yet. I do see where times are a changing though, especially for Can Ams.

__________________
1976 LeMans B09 Freeway Enforcer, 455/M40 Smokey

1977 Trans Am, 400/M21 Black/Gold Bandit. 44K actual miles

2017 Sierra SLT 1500 Z71 4X4

2019 Canyon SLT Crew 4X4

  #42  
Old 01-01-2007, 04:26 AM
BR57's Avatar
BR57 BR57 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto, On - Canada
Posts: 648
Default Glad we got some name calling and controversy going....

..these 73-77 A-body Tech threads have been kind of dull lately.

Just getting in from our New Year's Eve party, 3:25 am Toronto time, spent $275 plus on dinner and dancing with my wife and a few friends. I don't think that puts me in the cheap category. Damn It! That's over half the price of repro 73 Ram Air package that was never offered to the general public! God what was I thinking?

  #43  
Old 01-01-2007, 04:45 AM
bastard's Avatar
bastard bastard is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 648
Default

Hey, it's your money, and you're welcome to do whatever you want with it. It's just that when you compare the prices of parts already available to the cost of tooling up for a limited production of OE specification parts, the math doesn't add up.
Does this make all the mid seventies A body owners cheapskates? Not in my book. it makes them shrewd consumers that know a good value when they see it.

Sorry to disappoint anyone with my lack of name calling, I just thought that since we are birds of a feather, for the most part, that we should make some attempt to flock together.

__________________
  #44  
Old 01-01-2007, 12:04 PM
mike nixon mike nixon is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: PORTLAND,IN,47371
Posts: 12,322
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR57
..these 73-77 A-body Tech threads have been kind of dull lately.

Just getting in from our New Year's Eve party, 3:25 am Toronto time, spent $275 plus on dinner and dancing with my wife and a few friends. I don't think that puts me in the cheap category. Damn It! That's over half the price of repro 73 Ram Air package that was never offered to the general public! God what was I thinking?
if memory serves me correctly it was advertised here, on the c/p site and the a-body site. where else would brian have advertised it?

personally i think the 500.00 is reasonable for a piece that is repro'd from one of the few gm systems ever assembled.

it blows my mind that this same bunch will drop big dollars on a set of nos wheel opening mldgs but won't show interest in a project that will make the car run better and still looks oem.

but then again the 74 g/am isn't the only car i own and i'm more of a racer at heart than a show car person.

i also look at a restoration / restification as more than paint and wheels. if there was genuine interest in saving these cars then there'd be quality sheetmetal being stamped, as of this time there's none out there.


mike

__________________
so many pontiacs, so little time..................


moderator is a glorified word for an unappreciated prick..................


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the
former." --Albert Einstein



"There is no such thing as a good tax."

"We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle."

- Winston Churchill
  #45  
Old 01-01-2007, 12:10 PM
mike nixon mike nixon is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: PORTLAND,IN,47371
Posts: 12,322
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bastard
$1500 for just a shell seems a bit steep. Unless by shell you mean a complete car that is only missing an engine.

1500.00 for a tx rolling body less engine , trans, stick setup and console. it is or was a documented late production lemans gt.

try buying the sheetmetal and installing it for less than that.

mike

__________________
so many pontiacs, so little time..................


moderator is a glorified word for an unappreciated prick..................


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the
former." --Albert Einstein



"There is no such thing as a good tax."

"We contend that for a nation to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle."

- Winston Churchill
  #46  
Old 01-01-2007, 12:14 PM
billygoatii billygoatii is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Slinger, WI
Posts: 474
Default

I had my CanAm scaled at Great Lakes Dragaway in the early 1980s. It weighed 4008 lbs. with a 1/8 tank of gas, no driver, spare tire and floor mats removed. With dual exhaust and a carb rejet I was able to get a best of 14.80 on the stock engine.

__________________

My Dad's 59. The start of my love for Pontiacs!
  #47  
Old 01-01-2007, 12:18 PM
77 Canamman's Avatar
77 Canamman 77 Canamman is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 4,022
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike nixon
it blows my mind that this same bunch will drop big dollars on a set of nos wheel opening mldgs but won't show interest in a project that will make the car run better and still looks oem.


mike
The wheel opening mouldings should be one of the first parts that get repopped. NOS sets run from $350-$600. I paid $380 2 months ago and was happy with the price.

Another part that would sell well is the ever hard to find LeMans Sport Coupe fender emblem. The Grand Am fender emblems are already reproduced, so these should be next.

__________________
1976 LeMans B09 Freeway Enforcer, 455/M40 Smokey

1977 Trans Am, 400/M21 Black/Gold Bandit. 44K actual miles

2017 Sierra SLT 1500 Z71 4X4

2019 Canyon SLT Crew 4X4

  #48  
Old 01-01-2007, 02:59 PM
Brian Baker's Avatar
Brian Baker Brian Baker is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Glen Burnie, MD USA
Posts: 17,184
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bastard
Brian, I don't mean to impune your fabrication skills or business sense, but it seems kind of silly to ask people to pay that much for a reproduction of a part that was never even factory installed on any of these cars. And since you are (or were) basically offering an aftermarket product that looks like original equipment, I can see how the market offered little support since there are already quality products of this nature available at a lower cost.
I don't mean to start a whole big thing here about factory restoration vs. performance modification, but since what you were offering to build is essentially an aftermarket product, and products of this nature are already available, why would you expect someone to pay more just so it looks stock even though anyone who knows these cars would know it isn't?
Also concerning the price you guys are asking for "body shells," I paid $1000 for my 1976 Sport Coupe complete with a running 1968 400 in it. It won't win any beauty contests, but it is solid and complete. $1500 for just a shell seems a bit steep. Unless by shell you mean a complete car that is only missing an engine.
It is just simple economics that these cars are not worth as much as a 1967 GTO or Firebird. Those cars were in very high demand when they were new during the (dare I say) Performance Years era. The cars in this section fall into the Smog Years era. While their actual performance potential engine wise is the same, since the "true Pontiac engines" pretty much interchange through the later years of production, the desirability of the smog era cars is diminished by the original perception of them as overweight and underpowered mere shadows of their former selves.
However, the aftermarket thrives on producing parts to hop up these cars to make them run competitively with their older siblings.
Who guessed 5000 pounds for a Can Am? My car only weighs 3800. I can't imagine that a fiberglass spoiler and a shaker would bump the weight up that much. Those must be some really heavy stripes.
The point was to offer an accurate reproduction of the factory ram-air package that was never released for the '73 NACA hood. There were some of these parts available over the parts counter for a brief period, by the way, but it was never officially released as an option.

Sure there are plenty of other, cheaper methods available in the aftermarket for ram-air...none of which utilize the NACA scoops as the entry point. When you consider that this package would have included everything needed to convert your '73-'75 NACA hood over to functional ram-air (minus the solenoids), a target price of $500 is right in line with what it would cost for a comparable reproduction ram-air system that is available for 69-70 GTO's.

And not that it is any of your business, but I sold my "shell" for $2000. What the buyer got was a frame that was already sandblasted to bare metal and repainted with POR-15, followed by a top coat of Dupont Chroma One in gloss black. The 10-bolt rear had been gone through with all new bearings, seals, gears, and posi unit, and painted in a like fashion. The upper and lower control arms were boxed and poly' bushings installed. Front control arms were also blasted and painted in a like fashion. Spindles were blasted/painted. New bushings and ball joints up front, new springs front and rear, new drums and rotors and brake components.

The "shell" also came with:
New body mounts
All factory glass in great shape
Doors with body work complete and one coat of paint
Fenders and nose with bodywork complete and one coat of paint
A NACA hood with bodywork complete and one coat of paint
Straight and rust free bumpers
An entire rear clip that came from an Arizona car (to replace the rusty 1/4 panels and trunk floors)
New reproduction front floor pans
A complete black bucket seat interior in nice shape
Boxes of NOS trim and emblem parts (including hard to find rear wheel well moldings)

For $2000, I'd say the buyer got a great deal, especially considering I delivered the rolling chassis to his shop 50 miles away at no extra charge (after he came to my parents house and loaded up a pickup thruck and a Suburban with all the parts) but you know, for a while I seemingly couldn't give this car away because of the "cheap f@$ks" that are into them either "not interested" or having "something better to spend $2000 on".

The buyer, after a year, never did come by and pick up that rear clip, so being the nice guy that I am, and Scott Weddle having bought parts from me in the past and being the nice guy he is, I told him if he had a way to haul it home from my place, he could have it for free. So Scott came over one Saturday and I had some buddies here help him load it and take it home. It collected some surface rust over the years, but was still usable to replace bad metal.

__________________
Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut.
  #49  
Old 01-01-2007, 03:01 PM
Brian Baker's Avatar
Brian Baker Brian Baker is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Glen Burnie, MD USA
Posts: 17,184
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR57
..these 73-77 A-body Tech threads have been kind of dull lately.

Just getting in from our New Year's Eve party, 3:25 am Toronto time, spent $275 plus on dinner and dancing with my wife and a few friends. I don't think that puts me in the cheap category. Damn It! That's over half the price of repro 73 Ram Air package that was never offered to the general public! God what was I thinking?
Try spending that amount on something other than your wife and watch the fur fly when she finds out.

__________________
Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut.
  #50  
Old 01-01-2007, 03:04 PM
Brian Baker's Avatar
Brian Baker Brian Baker is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Glen Burnie, MD USA
Posts: 17,184
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 77 Canamman
Another part that would sell well is the ever hard to find LeMans Sport Coupe fender emblem. The Grand Am fender emblems are already reproduced, so these should be next.
When my father was gathering parts to restore his Can Am in the early 90's, it took us 4 years to find the "sport coupe" emblems. The seller want $45 each for them (this was in 1994). My father initially balked, but I turned him around when I said old emblems on fresh paint would look like sh!t and what's $90 when you're spending more than $5000 on paint.

__________________
Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut.
  #51  
Old 01-01-2007, 03:05 PM
Brian Baker's Avatar
Brian Baker Brian Baker is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Glen Burnie, MD USA
Posts: 17,184
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 77 Canamman
Another part that would sell well is the ever hard to find LeMans Sport Coupe fender emblem. The Grand Am fender emblems are already reproduced, so these should be next.
When my father was gathering parts to restore his Can Am in the early 90's, it took us 4 years to find the "sport coupe" emblems. The seller want $45 each for them (this was in 1994). My father initially balked, but I turned him around when I said old emblems on fresh paint would look like sh!t and what's $90 when you're spending more than $5000 on paint.

__________________
Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut.
  #52  
Old 01-01-2007, 03:45 PM
77 Canamman's Avatar
77 Canamman 77 Canamman is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 4,022
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Baker
When my father was gathering parts to restore his Can Am in the early 90's, it took us 4 years to find the "sport coupe" emblems. The seller want $45 each for them (this was in 1994). My father initially balked, but I turned him around when I said old emblems on fresh paint would look like sh!t and what's $90 when you're spending more than $5000 on paint.
The last single LSC emblem on E-Bay sold for $200.. I only wish I could pay $90 a pair for those things. I wish the cheap f@#ks would frequent E-Bay some more!

__________________
1976 LeMans B09 Freeway Enforcer, 455/M40 Smokey

1977 Trans Am, 400/M21 Black/Gold Bandit. 44K actual miles

2017 Sierra SLT 1500 Z71 4X4

2019 Canyon SLT Crew 4X4

  #53  
Old 01-01-2007, 08:59 PM
Brian Baker's Avatar
Brian Baker Brian Baker is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Glen Burnie, MD USA
Posts: 17,184
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 77 Canamman
The last single LSC emblem on E-Bay sold for $200.. I only wish I could pay $90 a pair for those things. I wish the cheap f@#ks would frequent E-Bay some more!
And was probably sold to Scott Weddle or one of the other five 73-77 A-body enthusiasts out there not afraid to spend money.

__________________
Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut.
  #54  
Old 01-01-2007, 09:52 PM
fiedlerh's Avatar
fiedlerh fiedlerh is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,257
Default

Like I've said before, a repro Ram Aiar system would be great. $500 would be a bargain. The labor and tooling costs to make it would be astounding, especially if you make the pan out of metal.

The value of 73-77 A-bodies would probably increase if more restoration parts were available. We've all seen decent cars parted out because of frustrations in finding reproduction parts.

Here's a list of parts we need more:
Front and rear rub strips.
Wheel opening moldings.
GA noses out of urethane like the original
Nearly all sheetmetal
Rocker panel trim pieces
NASA scoop inserts
74-75 nose emblems
Replacement interior woodgrain pieces (in real Mahogany and vinyl depending on year and part.)
Reproduction Hurst shifter handle and various 4-speed parts.
Correct engine paint premixed and heat resistant
Headlight bezels
You guys can probably think of more....

__________________
http://www.pontiacpower.org/
  #55  
Old 01-02-2007, 08:13 AM
77 Canamman's Avatar
77 Canamman 77 Canamman is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 4,022
Smile

'76-'77 Taillight bezels would be nice too...

__________________
1976 LeMans B09 Freeway Enforcer, 455/M40 Smokey

1977 Trans Am, 400/M21 Black/Gold Bandit. 44K actual miles

2017 Sierra SLT 1500 Z71 4X4

2019 Canyon SLT Crew 4X4

  #56  
Old 01-02-2007, 10:02 AM
Brian Baker's Avatar
Brian Baker Brian Baker is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Glen Burnie, MD USA
Posts: 17,184
Default

While we're talking about parts...I'm looking for a NOS horn button for my Can Am...it has the sport wheel with the large round button in the center...black. The Pontiac crest in it is faded and I'd like to replace it.

__________________
Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut.
  #57  
Old 01-02-2007, 11:03 AM
G/ACanAmT/A G/ACanAmT/A is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Blacksburg Va.
Posts: 23
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiedlerh
Here's a list of parts we need more:
Front and rear rub strips.
Wheel opening moldings.
GA noses out of urethane like the original
Nearly all sheetmetal
Rocker panel trim pieces
NASA scoop inserts
74-75 nose emblems
Replacement interior woodgrain pieces (in real Mahogany and vinyl depending on year and part.)
Reproduction Hurst shifter handle and various 4-speed parts.
Correct engine paint premixed and heat resistant
Headlight bezels
You guys can probably think of more....
I would like to see a simple battery tray!!!!!!

__________________
I Bleed Arrowhead Red
  #58  
Old 01-02-2007, 11:25 AM
77 Canamman's Avatar
77 Canamman 77 Canamman is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 4,022
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Baker
While we're talking about parts...I'm looking for a NOS horn button for my Can Am...it has the sport wheel with the large round button in the center...black. The Pontiac crest in it is faded and I'd like to replace it.
I bought this one a few weeks ago:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=320051211223

Here is a decent used one currently on E-Rape:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...7674674&rd=1,1

And since you are not the typical '73-'77 A body cheap f@#k, this guy has a NOS one in stock that he will be happy to send you for the paltry sum of $185 plus S&H...

CRAIG MOTORS
NAPA,CA
1-800-224-8111

__________________
1976 LeMans B09 Freeway Enforcer, 455/M40 Smokey

1977 Trans Am, 400/M21 Black/Gold Bandit. 44K actual miles

2017 Sierra SLT 1500 Z71 4X4

2019 Canyon SLT Crew 4X4


Last edited by 77 Canamman; 01-02-2007 at 11:31 AM.
  #59  
Old 01-02-2007, 11:27 AM
77 Canamman's Avatar
77 Canamman 77 Canamman is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 4,022
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by G/ACanAmT/A
I would like to see a simple battery tray!!!!!!
That should be a relatively easy one to reproduce. NOS ones are always selling for upwards of $100...

__________________
1976 LeMans B09 Freeway Enforcer, 455/M40 Smokey

1977 Trans Am, 400/M21 Black/Gold Bandit. 44K actual miles

2017 Sierra SLT 1500 Z71 4X4

2019 Canyon SLT Crew 4X4

  #60  
Old 01-02-2007, 12:35 PM
Brian Baker's Avatar
Brian Baker Brian Baker is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Glen Burnie, MD USA
Posts: 17,184
Default

Hmmmm, I wasn't aware that the center emblem could be had seperately...I though it was permanently part of the entire horn button.

The one I have on the car is in better shape than that used on on EBAY.

__________________
Just a blind squirrel looking for a nut.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:11 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017