[Chief Wanabee]

This reminds me of a guy I worked with once who had a 1977 Grand Prix he bought new with a 455. It was so fast, that he actually had to lower the windows a bit at speed because they would blow out because of the difference in air pressure (inside vs outside). He went through three sets of windows and the dealer finally told him this solution. He wrecked it the week before I first met him so I never got to see the car.

[Chief Wanabee]

That car was the reason I first got into Pontiacs. Otherwise I'd probably be driving a Studebaker Golden Hawk, those sure are cool.

[fiedlerh]

So far nobody has ever come up with a '73 A-body VIN that has an X for the engine code such as 2H37X3Pxxxxxx. GM selling an A-body with the SD-455 to the public would probably have been a violation of federal emissions laws since the engine wasn't certified for that use. It was cancelled as an option in the intermediates in a memo dated 3-19-73.

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by fiedlerh

So far nobody has ever come up with a '73 A-body VIN that has an X for the engine code such as 2H37X3Pxxxxxx. GM selling an A-body with the SD-455 to the public would probably have been a violation of federal emissions laws since the engine wasn't certified for that use. It was cancelled as an option in the intermediates in a memo dated 3-19-73.

Horst, I've got my binder of documents stashed somewhere in the house and have been unable to find them over teh last two days. If I recall, I scanned that memo and sent it to you or posted it on the board a good while ago. Do you still have it? Perhaps you can post it? I'll keep looking for my documents.

The emissions aspect of it is a good point also. It's why the engine was so late in getting released (or at least the main reason). Pontiac had pulled a fast one on the feds. At that time they collected exhaust samples with a large bag on initial start up. Pontiac engineers figured it took about 30 seconds to fill the bag, so they designed the EGR system to quit working after about 45 seconds. This meant a less polluted intake charge, which meant more power. Somehow the feds got wind of this and stopped them until they could rectify it. Part of this process meant they had to have all new part numbers on the engine pieces involved with the EGR system. This is why the '73 455-SD intake maifold has the part number partially ground off and restamped (to my knowledge, the only time Pontiac has ever "stamped" a part number on an intake manifold).

[TropicDave]

Originally Posted by 77 Canamman

From his description of the gauges, it sounds like the Rally gauges for the LeMans dash, which had the fuel/oil/temp gauges in the small center pod, and the gen lamp in the clock, or tach pod on the left.

"......did I mention it also has no gauge package? Well, it has a speedometer and a great big honking clock that worked about three days, a little combination fuel/temp/oil pressure guage thingie in the center of the dash rounds out this impressive display of insturmentation."

From this guy's comment on the Monte SS page, he's here in Florida somewhere. I've offered (over at the A-Body Site) to go check it out and get pictures, if I could find out where he is. No rear photo to try and get the county off the license plate, figures...

[toomanybirds]

Originally Posted by fiedlerh

So far nobody has ever come up with a '73 A-body VIN that has an X for the engine code such as 2H37X3Pxxxxxx. GM selling an A-body with the SD-455 to the public would probably have been a violation of federal emissions laws since the engine wasn't certified for that use. It was cancelled as an option in the intermediates in a memo dated 3-19-73.

Actually, the SD-455 engine WAS certified for the GTO (LeMans), Grand Am, and Grand Prix (automatic trans only). It was the re-certification of the SD-455 after the mid-year emissions change that was for the F-body only.

So, in theory it is possible that the engine was produced and sold in some of these cars. I have never seen solid proof of a factory built original car, and I doubt any exist. And I doubt we will see anybody come forward with an X-code VIN.

If the story about the brother of the Chairman of GM is true, it shouldn't be too hard to come forward with a VIN to confirm it.

Over the years I have heard rumors of SD-455 GTO's and Grand Am's. None of them were ever verifiable. There was at least one GTO with an SD-455, it was given a "Car of the Year" award by a magazine. We don't know if this car was an assembly line car with an X in the VIN, and we don't know what became of it. Probably was scrapped by GM.

We have read the stories about how there was a management change at GM just when this engine was to be produced. The new General Manager was not performance oriented and wanted to kill it, thinking it was not good PR for Pontiac with the current concerns about energy shortage and escalating fuel prices. Ultimately, it was released in the F-body only because of all the dealers with sold orders and the supply of engine parts that had already been made.

[fiedlerh]

Perhaps you can post it?

Actually, the SD-455 engine WAS certified for the GTO (LeMans), Grand Am, and Grand Prix (automatic trans only). It was the re-certification of the SD-455 after the mid-year emissions change that was for the F-body only.

Yes, that is correct.

So, in theory it is possible that the engine was produced and sold in some of these cars.

Doubtful, because by the time it was certified (April 15, 1973?) it was already cancelled from everything but the F-body. Supposedly there were a batch of SD-455 Firebirds built around January 1973. This story from Pete McCarthy and an owner of one of the early supposed SD-455 cars is in itself controversial because little or no documentation exists. These cars sat outside in a parking lot and could not be sold until the engine was certified. While they sat there some of the engines were stolen from a few of them, adding to the engine shortage. When the engine was finally certified, they had to have the emissions system updated and the engines were repainted (as best they could) while in the car.

No story from anyone at GM ever suggested that anything other than a few engineering mule A-bodies had the SD-455 installed. Since they were never certified for sale, they were presumably dismantled and destroyed. The feds were all over Pontiac's butt at the time for the emissions scam, so they were probably playing by the rules at the time.

Another reason for no SD-455 A-bodies: What exhaust system would fit? Sure you could use 72 455HO manifolds and head pipes, but the drivers-side frame angle brace would interfere with the driver's side exhaust pipe. You can remove it by unbolting it, but it would increase frame flex.

Another reason for no SD-455 A-bodies: The SD-455 option mandated the functional Ram Air system, but it did not pass federal drive-by noise levels. Pontiac engineering could have un-mandated it, but it was another nail in the coffin.

Another reason for no SD-455 A-bodies: The SD-455 option would have been pushing the limits for the 4-speed and the 10-bolt rear end in these 4000 lb+ cars with a GVWR over 5000lbs

Could someone sneak one thru as a special favor? Maybe, but very doubtful since (1) the normal dealer ordering procedure would have to be bypassed and (2) exhaust system parts would have to be sourced from GM parts or engineering for the production order and the frame brace would have to be removed. I don't know if such an abnormal procedure was possible.

Could the dealer put one in? Sure. Dealers would do anything if you had the money and they had connetions to get a SD-455 engine. I don't think the feds were enforcing emissions laws at the dealer level at the time, even though it was technically illegal to tamper.

There could have been some cool cars in 73-74 were it not for the feds. Just my opinion, but I think the federal emissions and safety laws were a major contributor that started the slow demise of the US auto industry.

[toomanybirds]

Originally Posted by fiedlerh

[IMG]
Another reason for no SD-455 A-bodies: What exhaust system would fit? Sure you could use 72 455HO manifolds and head pipes, but the drivers-side frame angle brace would interfere with the driver's side exhaust pipe. You can remove it by unbolting it, but it would increase frame flex.

Another reason for no SD-455 A-bodies: The SD-455 option mandated the functional Ram Air system, but it did not pass federal drive-by noise levels. Pontiac engineering could have un-mandated it, but it was another nail in the coffin.

Another reason for no SD-455 A-bodies: The SD-455 option would have been pushing the limits for the 4-speed and the 10-bolt rear end in these 4000 lb+ cars with a GVWR over 5000lbs

The A/G-Body exhaust system and functional ram air was produced and listed in the parts book for the SD-455 engine. A friend of mine ordered the exhaust system for his 73 GTO he had just purchased new. The system came in except for one piece. Lacking one piece to complete the system, he returned the rest of it. He has wished many times he had kept it. Don't know about the frame brace issue, must have been some solution for it as the exhaust pipes were built and the parts book listed the same manifolds as for the F-body SD cars.

He also ordered some of the ram air parts, he was not able to get the complete system, I do remember the open grilles for the nasa scoops he had installed in his car.

I have heard the story about drive by noise standards killing the functional ram air. I never seen any factory documentation that confirms this. There was a functional scoop sold through the dealer parts dept that was a bolt on for the 73-74 Trans Am and SD Formula. If functional ram air violated a federal noise standard, I doubt GM would have been allowed to sell the parts.

As far as the 4 speed durability issue, clearly the trans was planned for installation behind the SD engine in these cars except for the Grand Prix. I doubt it would have been planned if it wasn't strong enough.

The 8.5" 10 bolt axle in these cars is a durable unit. It has strength comparable with the 12 bolt Chevy unit used in earlier years.

I have seen the March memo cancelling the SD A and G body option. Again the certification mentioned refers to the RE-certification AFTER emission change. The engine had already been certified before the mandated emission system change. As far as the story about some January SD-455 F-bodies being built and the engines stolen from them. I would place this in the folklore category. Pete McCarthy is very knowledgable on the Ram Air GTO's, but SD-455's are not his expertise.

My main point is not to say that any A or G body SD-455's were built. I do not believe they were. My point is that they COULD HAVE BEEN BUILT. They were certified and the parts were available.

[Brewster]

I recall hearing that the cars produced for advertisement for GM at the time had only surface decals when in fact they where bone stock under all that metal.
My 2 cents

[fiedlerh]

The system came in except for one piece.

Probably the driver's side exhaust pipe.

The A/G-Body exhaust system...

Good to know! Got the part numbers?

As far as the 4 speed durability issue,

the 4-speed was not available with any 455 in the A-body. I assume the power/weight ratio would have led to warranty issures.

I never seen any factory documentation that confirms this.

Told to me by John Sawruk who worked on the system, and this memo:

[Brian Baker]

Speaking of exhaust, I'll have to get Phil to check his manifolds for a casting number. I assumed they were correct for '73 (making them F-body manifolds), but it's been so long since we poured over the car looking for these numbers that I've forgotten what they were. Whatever they are, they fit, and the linkage from the tranny to the steering column is still functional, although Mr. Hoffman had disconnected it because of the "safety switch" Pontiac had in the cars with 4-speeds (you could only start the car if the gearshift was in reverse and the clutch depressed) He disconnected this so the car could be started in neutral, but in doing so, it disabled the backup lights when going into reverse.

[jodan66]

well there is gonna be alot of sadness as soon as i get my car out to the shows is all i got to say for now but i do know of one rarefactory police car that did come with a factory 455sd in it and its a 73 gto with the phs docs and the build sheet so it will have a bunch of people eating there words. and that car was order to be a police car.

[mattgouras]

Originally Posted by jodan66

well there is gonna be alot of sadness as soon as i get my car out to the shows is all i got to say for now but i do know of one rarefactory police car that did come with a factory 455sd in it and its a 73 gto with the phs docs and the build sheet so it will have a bunch of people eating there words.

Not sure I understand. Is this a different claim on a SD455 A-body? Perhaps you can re-read your post, and make some edits.
It seems you are saying that you have (or know of) a 1973 GTO Police Car that came with a SD455 and has PHS docs to prove it. Sounds cool. Post the PHS ... I promise we won't be sad

[Brian Baker]

You know...this is all becoming so tiresome. In 35 years, nobody has been able to come forth and produce a facory built A or G body with the SD-455 engine. For those that think you have one, or know of someone that thinks they have one, please post a scan of the PHS documentation, and do so in a manner in which the VIN is not obscurred (save for the sequence number) so that we all can eat crow, and bask in the glory of finding the "holy grail". Otherwise, just STFU and move along.

[77 Canamman]

Originally Posted by jodan66

well there is gonna be alot of sadness as soon as i get my car out to the shows is all i got to say for now but i do know of one rarefactory police car that did come with a factory 455sd in it and its a 73 gto with the phs docs and the build sheet so it will have a bunch of people eating there words. and that car was order to be a police car.

That is the largest load of rotten horsesh it I have ever read here, far surpassing any of the ramblings of Skeeter, and that Kate Dude.

[WW3]

Really? a 1973 2 door police car?? That must have been one progressive police department back then. With one helluva a budget too!!

The sadness is that we have to endure all of this...

[GTOWAGON]

I know for a fact that the local PD in my hometown had a jet powered Safari wagon chase car that would do over 200 MPH it was a top seceret prototype that was snuck out the back door at GM. For 1000's of dollars i will show it to you Just send all your cash to me and i will get back to you if i feel like it

[Brian Baker]

2-door cop cars did happen...I don't know if that early. We had some Mustangs and Z28's in the mid-late 80's in MD for the State Troopers...used them strictly as radar/pursuit vehicles to collect revenue from speeding tickets.

[Rocky Rotella]

(As posted in the race section thread.)

I’ve been following this topic fairly close hoping too, that conclusive evidence of an elusive SD-powered Grand Am would surface, but my personal opinion (which means nothing btw) is similar to others.

Without seemingly trying to debate either side, I took the opportunity today to contact former Pontiac Product Planning Manager Tom Goad. Goad’s interest in A-body vehicles (particularly 73’s) is very high. He was also heavily involved in seeing the SD-455 into production vehicles once the engine was released by the engineering. Because of all this he is considered to be a highly credible source.

Goad said that anything is certainly possible, but that he highly doubts there ever was a production Super Duty Grand Am or Grand Prix. He confirmed that there were a few pilot cars that contained SD engines, but said that because they were neither safety nor emissions certified, there wasn’t any way they’d get into the public’s hands. (McCully once told me that they were VERY strict about this for fear of heavy lawsuits).

Goad added that ALL pilot/engineering Super Duty Grand Ams were returned and scrapped or used for safety testing (crashed). He said that while it’s possible that a GM executive could have a one-off vehicle built, there’s no way it happen on the assembly line and that such a vehicle’s existence is not probable. He said if someone claims to have the VIN, contact Jim Mattison at PHS for the factory-to-dealer invoice and that will settle once and for all how the vehicle in question was truly built.

[toomanybirds]

Originally Posted by fiedlerh

Probably the driver's side exhaust pipe.
Good to know! Got the part numbers?
the 4-speed was not available with any 455 in the A-body. I assume the power/weight ratio would have led to warranty issures.
Told to me by John Sawruk who worked on the system, and this memo:

The missing piece of the exhaust system was one of the over the axle tail pipes. He recieved both R and L header pipes. I have a parts catalog printed in Sept 1972 that lists all the part numbers. I don't have time to look them up right now. Anyone with a parts book of that date could look them up.

You are correct that the 4-speed was not available with any D-port 455 in an A-body. The 4-speed WAS available with the SD-455. Check the dealer order form you get from PHS or check any dealer sales brochure. Again, I am not saying they were built, I am saying they were planned, certified, and listed in all the printed literature. The required unique parts were manufactured.

You are free to assume anything you like about power/weight ratios and warranty issues. The fact remains that the 4-speed was planned to be used behind the SD-455 in the A-bodies.

Thanks for posting the memo on ram air on the Le Mans and Grand Am. It does state the option was canceled as a SEPARATE OPTION. It also states ram air was a REQUIRED OPTON for the SD-455 in the Le Mans and Grand Am. This reinforces what I have been saying. It was planned and the parts were manufactured. There is nothing in the memo about "government drive by noise standards."

I called my friend today that bought the new 73 GTO and asked him about the car. He confirmed the exhaust and ram air parts were ordered and received. He never got one of the tail pipes and part of the air cleaner that sealed to the hood. He returned all but the open screens for the scoop on the NASA hood. I asked him about the exhaust clearance issues with a frame brace. He reminded me that he installed D-port ram air manifolds and heads from a 70 RA III GTO. He used the front part of the 70 GTO header pipes, welded them to the stock 73 GTO pipes, and had no clearance issues with any frame brace or shift linkage.

I agree it is rather tiresome to hear rumors of cars with no evidence supporting them. I remain on the side of none were built, but am open to learn something new. Just show the evidence, don't repeat the fairy tales.