[68ragtop]

So measurement is taken at 32" front & 23" rear from the wheel centerline?

[Formulajones]

The more accurate way is from the rocker panel and the preferred method.

[68ragtop]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

The more accurate way is from the rocker panel and the preferred method.

Not sure what you mean. the manual image above shows the point where you go up to the rocker panel. Looks like its taken from the center line of the wheel.

I don't recall where I originally measured mine. That was 4 years ago already.

Edit: Guessing those measurements put it pretty close to the edges of the rockers front & rear though. I feel like thats all I did?

[Formulajones]

If you look at the chart that shows the ride height, there are several variances depending on car and options. Those heights vary from 7-8-9 inches etc... Those are taken from the rocker panel.

Each car is a little different in the instruction manual but you first measure inward from a fixed point, down the rocker panel to find the location the measurement is taken from. That fixed point could be the centerline of the wheel or at the edge of the rocker panel itself. The same procedure is done at the front of the rocker and at the rear of the rocker.

It's important to find that fixed point the measurement is taken from on the rocker for an accurate measurement, because moving up and down the rocker any distance will change that measurement.

Hope that makes sense.

[Greg Reid]

Is L.W.B. and S.W.B. four door and two door?
If so, looks like the rear measurement is taken 19" in front of the rear wheel centerline.

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[dataway]

Did you tighten up all the suspension bushings with the car in the air?

If so, loosen them up and let the suspension settle with the weight of the car on it.

[68ragtop]

These are the measurements I was questioning last night. I just didn't recall using them as the point to measure from. I should have explained my question a little better as I didn't recall that being part of the measuring process. I looked at my 68 this morning & The rockers start at +/- 18" & 29" I squeezed the caster from negative to slightly positive in the wheel alignment though, so my front wheels are back just a fuzz from where they should be if my alignment was to spec.

Looking at the car though I remember now that I did not use those measurements, I just measured about 1" in from each starting edge. At the end of the day this is splitting hairs as far as the heights goes though. heck, tire pressure I'm sure effects the height more than were you start from the center line of the wheels

I am also curious what the L.W.B. and S.W.B. is for. Guessing long wheel base, short wheel base? What about "276"

[Formulajones]

Yes tire pressure plays a roll, and of course these measurements in the book are with stock bias ply tires in place as well.

I'd have to look but pretty sure that is all explained in the assembly manual because even the same type of car had different tire options for that particular model with different tire heights and different pressures, so the measurements change as a result.

As an example, I know when looking at the assembly manual for our 69Z, they had a specific tire that no other 69 camaro used (E70-15 wide tread Goodyear or E70-15 Firestone Sport Car 200's) and they are taller, yet the 69 Z/28 had a lower ride height than any other 69 camaro.

[locomotivebreath]

None of the suspension was tightened as the body was off when I installed them 8 years ago . What application would take such a spring - dump truck ?

[Vid]

Since I put my new motor in, my car looks a little bit like a gasser. Today I put the radiator in and the front bumper back on thinking for sure it would bring the front down. Not by much and 69 LeMans front bumpers could be used for bench press by Olympic athletes! I still have to put the hood on, so there’s what, 100 lbs? I can’t imagine that the aluminum heads, intake and headers lightened it up that much? . So yeah I’m in the same boat, front end is sitting high but I like it.


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[Vid]

Here’s an interesting pic I found from 2 years ago when I had my cast iron everything 350 cu in motor in my car (the green one). Note the front fender well height. The front springs in my car were replaced by the previous owner, I believe they are Moog stock replacement springs with ACDelco shocks. The white Judge tribute car just behind sits more like mine does now with the lighter aluminum engine parts. Maybe this will help shed some light on the subject.


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[Carousel72TRed]

Originally Posted by Vid

Since I put my new motor in, my car looks a little bit like a gasser. Today I put the radiator in and the front bumper back on thinking for sure it would bring the front down. Not by much and 69 LeMans front bumpers could be used for bench press by Olympic athletes! I still have to put the hood on, so there’s what, 100 lbs? I can’t imagine that the aluminum heads, intake and headers lightened it up that much? . So yeah I’m in the same boat, front end is sitting high but I like it.


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My 69 GTO sits exactly the same with the front end high like yours. If your car was a factory air car heavy front coil springs were installed instead of the standard coil springs. And if you now don’t have the factory air in the car you’ve taken a lot of weight off the front end. Also if you now have an aluminum intake and headers instead of the cast iron intake and exhaust manifolds you have shaved more weight off of the front end. Also do you have 14 or 15 inch tires? 15 inch tires would fill up s little more space inside the wheel well. For me I’m going to put air shocks in the rear to raise the rear end to to balance it out. For me the front end being high is good for when you go over a bump or big dip in the road you’re less likely to bottom out. I suppose you can get new coil springs that will lower the front end.


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[Greg Reid]

These kinds of problems occuring is precisely why I have steered away from replacing my coil springs.
So, when does one feel that it is necessary to replace the coil springs? If the car sits unlevel or ride height is off? Or is it just that if a person is doing a full restoration they want new springs along with everything else that's new in the suspension?
The only reason I can think of for changing the springs is if the ride height is off. My car sits at the factory height now with old springs. If I go through the trouble and expense of changing them out and the ride height is off when I'm finished I'll be like, why did I do that?

[Carousel72TRed]

Originally Posted by Carousel72TRed

My 69 GTO sits exactly the same with the front end high like yours. If your car was a factory air car heavy front coil springs were installed instead of the standard coil springs. And if you now don’t have the factory air in the car you’ve taken a lot of weight off the front end. Also if you now have an aluminum intake and headers instead of the cast iron intake and exhaust manifolds you have shaved more weight off of the front end. Also do you have 14 or 15 inch tires? 15 inch tires would fill up s little more space inside the wheel well. For me I’m going to put air shocks in the rear to raise the rear end to to balance it out. For me the front end being high is good for when you go over a bump or big dip in the road you’re less likely to bottom out. I suppose you can get new coil springs that will lower the front end.


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Here’s a picture of mine and the ride height on the front end was the same with my original coil springs


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[north]

Eaton, and all other replacement springs are incorrect. They all sit way too high and they are not tapered and flush machined at one end so they banana once installed and can contact the frame, all junk. If at all possible keep the original springs and if necessary add disc spacers to compensate for age sag. All you have to do is look at a factory front coil spring part list, there were dozens of different part numbers just for 69 A bodies and there were specific left and right applications depending on model, body style, engine choice, transmission choice, ride and handling or heavy duty suspension options, AC or not. How could one or two part numbers today possibly correctly replace all that?

[north]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

I know I've seen this somewhere else as well but this one is from the 1969 assembly manual. It refers to 1969 Tempest and Grand Prix. Tempest 2dr is 3327 and 4 Dr is 3369. Notice front measurements are slightly higher.
If I'm deciphering it correctly..


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As for the lwb versus swb the long wheelbase was 4 doors including wagons and short was all two door models.

On the GP you got a lower ride height if you ordered auto level control rear shock option (which was included in the SJ option) so those cars got lower front and rear springs.

HD suspension is not ride and handling suspension, it is the Heavy cargo option (F40 in Chevy lingo) which basically jacked up the car similar to wagon height for encyclopedia salesmen etc. The Y96 ride and handling option did not change ride height but it did include different springs that gave a firmer ride.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by north

Eaton, and all other replacement springs are incorrect. They all sit way too high and they are not tapered and flush machined at one end so they banana once installed and can contact the frame, all junk. If at all possible keep the original springs and if necessary add disc spacers to compensate for age sag. All you have to do is look at a factory front coil spring part list, there were dozens of different part numbers just for 69 A bodies and there were specific left and right applications depending on model, body style, engine choice, transmission choice, ride and handling or heavy duty suspension options, AC or not. How could one or two part numbers today possibly correctly replace all that?

Correct, and why I stopped using Moog decades ago when they consolidated a bunch of part numbers.

What you said is why I started using Coil Spring Specialties. They are aware of the numerous spring rate changes for a specific model and can even tailor the rate based off of changes you've made to the car IE: aluminum heads, fiberglass body panels etc... and can also incorporate things into the spring like extra stored energy for weight transfer. All while keeping the stock ride height, if that's what you're after.

Just be prepared to answer a lot of questions. The better you answer those questions the better spring they can provide you with. There is also a wait time for them to make the spring of course. The last set I got from them took about 2 weeks. Not sure what the wait time may be currently.

[Greg Reid]

north, what is 276? Grand Prix maybe?

[Carousel72TRed]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Correct, and why I stopped using Moog decades ago when they consolidated a bunch of part numbers.

What you said is why I started using Coil Spring Specialties. They are aware of the numerous spring rate changes for a specific model and can even tailor the rate based off of changes you've made to the car IE: aluminum heads, fiberglass body panels etc... and can also incorporate things into the spring like extra stored energy for weight transfer. All while keeping the stock ride height, if that's what you're after.

Just be prepared to answer a lot of questions. The better you answer those questions the better spring they can provide you with. There is also a wait time for them to make the spring of course. The last set I got from them took about 2 weeks. Not sure what the wait time may be currently.

I do have some 69 GTO springs from a parts GTO from the 80’s I have and will save them for future possible installation. I bought the new springs from Moog and was hoping that would bring the front end down some but it didn’t. Not tapered at the end like the originals. My car has a lot of front end weight gone due to no AC, aluminum intake but current plans are for me getting air shocks and raising it up to balance it out. One great thing about the raised front end are for far less bottoming instances.


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[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Carousel72TRed

I do have some 69 GTO springs from a parts GTO from the 80’s I have and will save them for future possible installation. I bought the new springs from Moog and was hoping that would bring the front end down some but it didn’t. Not tapered at the end like the originals. My car has a lot of front end weight gone due to no AC, aluminum intake but current plans are for me getting air shocks and raising it up to balance it out. One great thing about the raised front end are for far less bottoming instances.


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I agree, I do like the front ends to be up just a little bit, either near factory height or a pinch more, for a lot of reasons. A big one is just like you said, bottoming instances. There are plenty of opportunities to drag the bottom of the car driving around here in Arizona, and a low hung car is just a complete disaster to try to drive without your stress level reaching the limit, and that just makes the car unpleasant to drive anywhere.